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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Belzbet" data-source="post: 5631832" data-attributes="member: 6678902">I do see what you mean that the players will expect treasure (but I dont think it bores them it bores me mainly)... Also "liberate yourself from the rules" makes little sense in a game of rules... liberate yourself from this rule (why i dont want to I have said this, I didnt even ask about the rule and how good or bad it is)... what about the others? well then I run the risk of really tricking my players (yeah the spot and listen rules dont mean much I will "liberate" myself from them). etc etc. My leading question isnt about how to give the appropriate treasure or about whether or not I should follow the rules (I mean it would be very green to say you dont have to give ANY treasure or ANYTHING, I mean of course that would be a thrilling campaign but its not the norm which is of course not what your saying).  Its about how to make treasre acqusition more exciting (and saying "you dont have to give them so much treasure does not help me at all, also saying how inexperienced I am is unhelpful too. what was your great suggestion anyway besides the empty "liberate yourself"? So you suggest liberating myself from the rules by doing what? giving out random loot and not caring if they get it or not? And if they dont get it then count it as a loss on their part and forever gone? I could do this this but I dont really see how it is the better way to do it... it rather seems like a thing of style... Also I keep track of the loot given to the player, whether it is what is recommending in the book  or not (which is a thing of style not a better Dming way)...  maybe you dont keep track of the loot given and just give it out... if you did that you wouldnt know how much loot their behind (from the recommended heck maybe you dont even look at the recommended values) but lets  say you do and you keep track of the PC's wealth also lets say you place treasure and if they bite on the adventure and go through the challenges and dont find the treasure you say thats their loss... Now at lv 10 lets just say the PC's are really behind (no matter the encouragment and warnings your PC's dont search).. it seems reasonable to slowly give them alittle more treasure (that would be compensating for the treasure not found)... a Dm that DIDNT keep track would most likely naturally do this... if they noticed their PC's werent finding much of the treasure placed it seems natural that a DM would start giving more treasure and/or placing it alittle easier (this doesnt mean that they will have the exacly amount given but its a natural way the Dm would compensate).  I think this is highly probable (although all DM's have their style the take it or leave it one I would say is pretty strict) .this is essentially what I am talking about so I think "making sure" was a bad word on my part...  making it harder to find treasure isnt exactly what I was looking for (and NOT reallocating it when it is missed is not either)...  (and YES i have thought about the take it or leave it method, it is all but obvious).    althouh I do like the suggestions given by green slime and I may just use the take it or leave it method awhile and see if the players have more fun (I dont see it though since most of the item problems I am talking about happen of screen sort of speak; if that is tricking my PC's then heh I dont think its to bad to trick them into thinking their getting their due treasure; most of the challenges come from actual puzzles and combat and RPing not searching for items, so if I am 'tricking' them into 'thinking' they deserve this treasure since they just slayed the orcs and just figured out the word to the puzzle lock then I am fine with it). But you never know it may make the game funner for all (I would definetely like to enact the take it or leave but considering my group of PC's I really dont think that would gross any net fun<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> also dont be commanded by the rules fireball does 20d6 and scales +10d6 every increase in CL<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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