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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mark Chance" data-source="post: 910161" data-attributes="member: 2795">That should be the other way around. Anyone who has seriously studied systematic religion can easily recognize the widespread use of rhetorical and formal logic. Faith and reason, properly understood, are not contradictory.First, let's clarify some definitions so that we will know what is meant by "faith" and by "reason." Faith is an act, and all acts have an object. The object of faith means all the things believed. These objects of faith are expressed in propositions, such as "XYZ is Lord." Propositions are not expressions of the act of believing, but are the content of what is believed. Even still, these propositions are not the ultimate object of faith, but only the proximate ones. The ultimate object of faith is not words. The propositions are the structure or map of faith.The act of faith is more than mere belief. We believe many things, but are not willing to die for them. For example, I believe baseball is boring, but put a gun to my head and I'll change my mind. Religious faith, OTOH, is both something to live every moment for as well as to die for if that time comes. Full-blown faith includes, in increasing order of importance, hope, trust, belief in propositions as described above, and a commitment to act in accordance with faith's propositions.Now to reason, which also is an act that has an object. The object is all that reason can know. It includes things that can be understood by reason alone, discovered by human reason to be true, and proved logically without reference to the propositions of faith. It may or may not work in conjunction with faith, just as faith may or may work in conjunction with reason. Consider the following examples:By reason alone, man can understand what a star is made of, discover that Pluto exists, and prove the Pythagorean theorem.By reason and faith, man can understand why the universe is so well-ordered, discover the historical existence of Jesus, and demonstrate that the soul does not die.By faith alone, man can understand God's plan to save us, discover how much God loves us, and prove that God is a Trinity. (NB: I apologize for the specifically Christian examples. Specific doctrines from any religion would suffice, but I stick with what I know best.)The act of reason includes all the subjective, personal acts of the mind by which we understand, discover, or prove any truth. The three acts of the minds are classically called simple apprehension, judgment, and reasoning. It is important to remember at all times that, just as acts of faith can be flawed or fail, so can acts of reason. I can fail to act has God wills, and I can fail to correctly judge the evidence of a reasoned argument.Now, let's consider the relationship between faith and reason. There are five possibilities, in which faith is F and reason is R. These possibilities are:1. All that is known by F is also known by R, but not all that is known by R is known by F. F is thus a subclass of R.2. All that is known by R is also known by F, but not all that is known by F is known by R. R is thus a subclass of F.3. All that is known by R is known by F and vice versa. F and R are interchangeable.4. Nothing known by R is known by F and vice versa. F and R are mutually exclusive. 5. Some but not all things known by F are known by R, and some but not all things known by R are known by F. F and R partly overlap.It is number 5 that is the accurate expression of the relationship between faith and reason. Number 5 distinguishes between three kinds of truth: truths of faith and not of reason, truths of both faith and reason (such as the existence of a god), and truths of reason and not of faith (such as mathematics).Now, just so that all of this is game related, apply the principles to the druid's oath.Some weapons are permitted because they simulate an animal's natural attacks: Reason and faith together.Some weapons, even though they simulate an animal's natural attack, are prohibited. The question isn't why is this illogical, but instead is how does the prohibition relate to the internal consistency (reason and faith together) of the druid's oath? No one has addressed this question.</blockquote>

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