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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
A Few Balance Changes I'm Considering
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<blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 7599711" data-attributes="member: 6777737"><p>I think I'd just make any answer to repeat questions the same already. Conceptually, the spells are contacting deities, and those deities are telling their subject what they know. Deity A and Deity B are probably likely to know the same things unless they're diametrically opposed or something else strange is going on where one deity has special knowledge or interest. Unless I had a good reason to think otherwise, I would default to assuming that the answers would be identical. I wouldn't even tell the players this information unless they got really obnoxious.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think I've ever been worried about Gate. Firstly because I can count on one hand how often my PCs have gotten the spell at all, and second because I don't think I've ever challenged the party with something that wouldn't have some sort of magical protection, be it a Forbiddance spell, a magic item, etc. Alternately, you can simply rule that the character is using a pseudonym or code name.</p><p></p><p>Like it doesn't matter why. It doesn't work because it would be stupid if it worked. "No, the giant eagles will not fly you to Mt. Doom."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I guess? I mean, it doesn't arguably work on anyone immune to Charm, it certainly doesn't work on anybody who isn't completely alone, and it only works on things that take 1 minute to describe. This spell's best counter is literally having a friend or a guard with you.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree, Geas is a pretty poor compulsion. A previous DM I played under had a subject that disobeyed suffer as though they had incurable Sewer Plague. At the end of any long rest if the subject did not work or intend to complete the assigned task since the last long rest (or in the last 24 hours), they suffer an additional level of exhaustion (similar to failing your save against the disease).</p><p></p><p>In other words: "A disobedient creature suffers one level of Exhaustion, and it regains only half the normal number of Hit Points from spending Hit Dice and no Hit Points from finishing a Long Rest. At the end of each Long Rest, a creature that has continued to be disobedient gains one level of Exhaustion to a maximum Exhaustion of level 4." I think it was level 4 maximum. I know he made it so it couldn't possibly kill you. He also ruled that impossible tasks or tasks that the subject doesn't understand (in spite of knowing the words of the task) work the same as a suicidal task: the spell ends.</p><p></p><p>The core problem with the spell is that it's built to deny agency, and that's not really very fun for the target of the spell at all. I think the spell is so weak so that DMs won't be tempted to use it to compel players to do what the DM wants.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I haven't really encountered this problem. Most powerful magical effects aren't spells that the players would notice, and few of my players would attempt to use dispel to break them. I would simply say, "A caster who fails their check to dispel a given effect cannot attempt to dispel the same magical effect for 24 hours."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's never been a problem at our tables, but if I were going to change it I would just remove the "At Higher Levels" clause. I might consider changing the DC to 13 + the spell's level.</p><p></p><p>I know one DM who changed it to only work on spells of 3rd level or lower, kind of like a one shot globe of invulnerability. It's fairly narrow at that point, but not useless.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bacon Bits, post: 7599711, member: 6777737"] I think I'd just make any answer to repeat questions the same already. Conceptually, the spells are contacting deities, and those deities are telling their subject what they know. Deity A and Deity B are probably likely to know the same things unless they're diametrically opposed or something else strange is going on where one deity has special knowledge or interest. Unless I had a good reason to think otherwise, I would default to assuming that the answers would be identical. I wouldn't even tell the players this information unless they got really obnoxious. I don't think I've ever been worried about Gate. Firstly because I can count on one hand how often my PCs have gotten the spell at all, and second because I don't think I've ever challenged the party with something that wouldn't have some sort of magical protection, be it a Forbiddance spell, a magic item, etc. Alternately, you can simply rule that the character is using a pseudonym or code name. Like it doesn't matter why. It doesn't work because it would be stupid if it worked. "No, the giant eagles will not fly you to Mt. Doom." I guess? I mean, it doesn't arguably work on anyone immune to Charm, it certainly doesn't work on anybody who isn't completely alone, and it only works on things that take 1 minute to describe. This spell's best counter is literally having a friend or a guard with you. I agree, Geas is a pretty poor compulsion. A previous DM I played under had a subject that disobeyed suffer as though they had incurable Sewer Plague. At the end of any long rest if the subject did not work or intend to complete the assigned task since the last long rest (or in the last 24 hours), they suffer an additional level of exhaustion (similar to failing your save against the disease). In other words: "A disobedient creature suffers one level of Exhaustion, and it regains only half the normal number of Hit Points from spending Hit Dice and no Hit Points from finishing a Long Rest. At the end of each Long Rest, a creature that has continued to be disobedient gains one level of Exhaustion to a maximum Exhaustion of level 4." I think it was level 4 maximum. I know he made it so it couldn't possibly kill you. He also ruled that impossible tasks or tasks that the subject doesn't understand (in spite of knowing the words of the task) work the same as a suicidal task: the spell ends. The core problem with the spell is that it's built to deny agency, and that's not really very fun for the target of the spell at all. I think the spell is so weak so that DMs won't be tempted to use it to compel players to do what the DM wants. I haven't really encountered this problem. Most powerful magical effects aren't spells that the players would notice, and few of my players would attempt to use dispel to break them. I would simply say, "A caster who fails their check to dispel a given effect cannot attempt to dispel the same magical effect for 24 hours." It's never been a problem at our tables, but if I were going to change it I would just remove the "At Higher Levels" clause. I might consider changing the DC to 13 + the spell's level. I know one DM who changed it to only work on spells of 3rd level or lower, kind of like a one shot globe of invulnerability. It's fairly narrow at that point, but not useless. [/QUOTE]
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