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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HaroldTheHobbit" data-source="post: 9725017" data-attributes="member: 7031679">Well, take a game like Pathfinder 2e that I think is very crunchy. Despite the crunch, it has unified mechanics, is well structured and organized, and feels streamlined and playable despite the chrunchorama.WFRP4e feels like the opposite, despite being less crunchy. It’s badly organized and structured, is very fiddly in places it doesn’t need to be, advantage group or not is not well implemented, the advancement system is once again fiddly. The system is unintuitive and demands that both gm and players engage really hard with commitment with the system.I have a couple of players that have no problem groking and making informed mechanical character choices in mid crunch systems like D&D5e and Savage Worlds (my favourite game). But while they are happy to read a bit to get a new system, I would never even try to subject them to the time commitment and the reading of lots and lots of badly organized text necessary in 4e to make informed choices about character and gameplay.What I’m saying is that a 4.5 doesn’t need to uncrunch the game much, just make it more coherent, accessible and intuitively playable.</blockquote>