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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrankTrollman" data-source="post: 1120173" data-attributes="member: 14225">Just a soldier?Excuse me, what's the "Warrior" class for if not for people who are just soldiers and nothing more?A Fighter is, according to the PHB:The questing KnightThe conquering OverlordThe elite foot Soldierthe hardened MercenaryThe Bandit kingAccording to Sword and Fist (page 53), Fighters also include:DuelistsGladiatorsPiratesDesert Raiders-------------To put things in a literary context, let's look at Brienne from the Song of Ice and Fire. She's a Fighter, plain and simple. She is awkward socially, not particularly pretty, and has a low charisma. She is not blindingly intelligent. She is however:Able to out-ride other knights who are themselves named characters (high ride skill).Able to see farther than other people (high spot skill).Able to climb a tree quickly in full armor (high climb skill).Able to jump out of said tree, in armor, and land on her feet without hurting herself (high jump skill).Able to leap off a cliff into the ocean and effortlessly swim to a boat (high swim skill).She's normally intelligent (Int 10, +0 bonus), has no particular class skills other than combat ones (only has fighter levels), and has 5 skills raised up to the point of being noteworthy.She gets 4 skill points per level.-----------Literary challenge two:Orlando Bloom from Pirates of the Caribbean.There is absolutely no way he has levels in anything but Fighter. He doesn't have a whole lot of smarts going for him, but here's what he does have:A really good Craft: Blacksmithing skill (Look at those masterwork swords he made!)A really good Swim skill (consider how long and well he had to fight underwater)A really good Sense Motive skill (he was able to counter the feints of Jack Sparrow)A really good Spot skill (he was the only person to actually beat Jack Sparrow's palming of the coin)A really good Escape Artist skill (without which he would have drowned).A reasonably good Sneak skill (or if not using Arcana Unearthed skills, this would have to be hide and move silently).Passably good skills in Appraise, climb, diplomacy, jump, listen, sleight of hand, tumble, and use rope - some of which could be explained by just having a good strength and dexterity, and some of which can't.So unless you want to tell me that he's got an Intelligence of like 18, I'm thinking that he gets 4 skill points per level.------Literary challenge three: Little John.Little John is a strength based fighter who is specifically of below-normal human intelligence. That puts him at Int 8 - if we are generous.He excells at:ClimbingJumpingSneakingListeningOnce again, this is modelled well by a base 4 skill points per level, and modelled poorly by a base 2 skill points per level.-----4 skill points per level is not unbalanced. It does our literary Fighter types better than 2 does. I don't see how anyone could have a problem with this.People who are "Fighters" in stories have a very great tendency to be:* Observant (who's the guy who says "do you hear that?" generally it's the hardened veteran and not the singer).* Sneaky (I don't think for a minute that Roland has Rogue levels, but he sneaks up on people all the time)* Physically capable (when it comes to riding, jumping, climbing, or swimming, the warrior in the party is supposed to be able to do that).Now, you can do all that with the Ranger - but the vast majority of these guys in stories don't have animal companions or a connection to the wilderness, or any of that crap.Just being hard core is supposed to give you all of the stuff that having 4-9 skills maxxed out gets you in D&D.Fighters do "non magical physical stuff". Under the D&D rules, you need skills to do that. Feats alone do not cut it.-Frank</blockquote>

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