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<blockquote data-quote="FrankTrollman" data-source="post: 1120896" data-attributes="member: 14225">If the game was &quot;air warz&quot; - I would be right.The Fighter is designed to fight as well as the Barbarian and do nothing else. The Barbarian is designed to fight as well as the Fighter and be able to contribute to the success of the party in a wilderness survival and scouting role.That's the baseline. The baseline is that all the other characters can fight just as well as the Fighter and do something else. It's like you had an airplane that can't fly. It had better be able to do something that the other airplanes can't or you have a lemon.That's an inherently broken concept, but if I were to do something like that, I would make a class that was better at Fighting than the Barbarian, the Rogue, the Cleric, or the Wizard. The PHB Fighter is not &quot;better&quot; - he's not even &quot;as good&quot; at high levels.The PHB Fighter is weak in combat, and designed to be weak out of combat. That's absurd.That's hogswallop, and I can't believe you expect people to swallow it.Of course you can have a character who is good in combat and still able to hold his own in some aspect of non-combat situations.Even if you gave the character 4 skill points and access to every single skill in class, he'd still end up relying upon the Rogue, because the Rogue has more skill points and can do more things.The concept that we need a class whose player may as well go to sleep in between combats is inane. And the concept that it would somehow break the game for all of the players to want to stay awake through the entire game is laughable.-Frank</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrankTrollman, post: 1120896, member: 14225"] If the game was "air warz" - I would be right. The Fighter is designed to fight as well as the Barbarian and do nothing else. The Barbarian is designed to fight as well as the Fighter and be able to contribute to the success of the party in a wilderness survival and scouting role. That's the baseline. The baseline is that all the other characters can fight just as well as the Fighter [i]and[/i] do something else. It's like you had an airplane that can't fly. It had better be able to do [i]something[/i] that the other airplanes can't or you have a lemon. That's an inherently broken concept, but if I were to do something like that, I would make a class that was [i]better[/i] at Fighting than the Barbarian, the Rogue, the Cleric, or the Wizard. The PHB Fighter is not "better" - he's not even "as good" at high levels. The PHB Fighter is weak in combat, and designed to be weak out of combat. That's absurd. That's hogswallop, and I can't believe you expect people to swallow it. Of course you can have a character who is good in combat and still able to hold his own in [i]some aspect[/i] of non-combat situations. Even if you gave the character 4 skill points and access to [i]every single skill in class[/i], he'd still end up relying upon the Rogue, because the Rogue has more skill points and can do more things. The concept that we need a class whose player may as well [i]go to sleep[/i] in between combats is inane. And the concept that it would somehow break the game for all of the players to want to stay awake through the entire game is laughable. -Frank [/QUOTE]

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