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<blockquote data-quote="Lord Pendragon" data-source="post: 1122953" data-attributes="member: 707">And by the same logic, no one can dispute that if peeps in their campaign are taking nothing but the fighter class, there's nothing wrong with the class.Well gosh darn it, that's me!&nbsp; So I guess there's nothing wrong with the class.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes&nbsp; &nbsp; :rolleyes:"&nbsp; data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> Seriously, Dark Angel, the fact that one DM's group avoids or embraces a class is proof of absolutely nothing.No, stupid is your logic.&nbsp; You expect the fighter to perform as well as a rogue or bard outside of combat, and it shouldn't.The fighter already does perform outside of combat.&nbsp; He gets 2 skill points per level, and he can make every untrained skill check just like any other class.&nbsp; The fact the he won't do as well is perfectly balanced by the fact that the rogue, bard, and wizard won't be doing as well as the fighter in melee combat.I have a pure fighter in my 6th-level role-play-heavy campaign who has no trouble contributing outside of combat.&nbsp; He comes up with plans.&nbsp; He interacts with NPCs, he gets along just fine.&nbsp; And when combat does come up, he's a monster.If the fighter wants to be better at skills, he can use some of his 11 bonus feats (it's true that 7 of the 18 total feats he gains are not part of the class) to gain skill point equilvalents (+3 to a skill is the equivalent is +6 skill points in a cross-class skill.&nbsp; Not bad at all.&nbsp; +2/+2 is the equivalent of +8.)Not only that, but even if, after spending a few feats, he still feels weak, he can always choose to do the same thing every other class does when faced with a weakness in the character:&nbsp; buy some magic.&nbsp; A +10 to Diplomacy ring will make even the 10 Int fighter glib-tongued.&nbsp; A +10 to Bluff will make even the most simple-minded fighter a decent liar.&nbsp; And a Headband of Intellect +4 will give him 4 skill points per level within the core rules already, at the affordable cost of 16,000gp.Edit: grammar</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lord Pendragon, post: 1122953, member: 707"] And by the same logic, no one can dispute that if peeps in their campaign are taking nothing [i]but[/i] the fighter class, there's [i]nothing[/i] wrong with the class. Well gosh darn it, that's [i]me[/i]! So I guess there's nothing wrong with the class. :rolleyes: Seriously, Dark Angel, the fact that one DM's group avoids or embraces a class is proof of absolutely nothing.No, stupid is your logic. You expect the fighter to perform [i]as well as[/i] a rogue or bard outside of combat, and it shouldn't. The fighter already does perform outside of combat. He gets 2 skill points per level, and he can make every untrained skill check just like any other class. The fact the he won't do [i]as well[/i] is perfectly balanced by the fact that the rogue, bard, and wizard won't be doing [i]as well[/i] as the fighter in melee combat. I have a pure fighter in my 6th-level role-play-heavy campaign who has no trouble contributing outside of combat. He comes up with plans. He interacts with NPCs, he gets along just fine. And when combat does come up, he's a monster. If the fighter wants to be better at skills, he can use some of his 11 bonus feats (it's true that 7 of the 18 total feats he gains are not part of the class) to gain skill point equilvalents (+3 to a skill is the equivalent is +6 skill points in a cross-class skill. Not bad at all. +2/+2 is the equivalent of +8.) Not only that, but even if, after spending a few feats, he still feels weak, he can always choose to do the same thing every other class does when faced with a weakness in the character: buy some magic. A +10 to Diplomacy ring will make even the 10 Int fighter glib-tongued. A +10 to Bluff will make even the most simple-minded fighter a decent liar. And a [i]Headband of Intellect +4[/i] will give him 4 skill points per level within the core rules already, at the affordable cost of 16,000gp. Edit: grammar [/QUOTE]

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