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<blockquote data-quote="Zerakon" data-source="post: 1125663" data-attributes="member: 12921">Interesting thread.I agree that the fighter is poorly designed. Great for the low levels + horrible at high levels leads to an extreme multiclass incentive which is poor design. Weapon specialization/greater weapon focus/greater weapon specialization with their &quot;fighter level X&quot; seems merely a half-hearted attempt at a fix.I almost wanted to say that the problem lies with broken prestige classes, but I think it is moreso that the fighter is a weak baseline. I don't have any splatbooks so my knowledge of all the prestige classes is severely limited, but I will say that when designing my own prestige classes, I feel handcuffed by the fighter's poor baseline.I'm still debating exactly what my preferred fix would be, but here are some of my thoughts for building a better baseline fighter:(1) If you think a fighter's skills are too weak and he could use a &quot;non-combat schtick,&quot; give him:4 skill points per level instead of 2 with a much better list of class skills (something on the scale of the rogue's list but with Ride included and drop some specialist stuff like Decipher Script, Use Magic Device, etc.) BUT with the drawback that the maximum rank the fighter can achieve is level+1 rather than the standard level+3.This would allow the fighter to be somewhat of a minor jack-of-all-trades, truly master of none as he's always 2 ranks behind the best in the party at any particular skill (unless he takes a Skill Focus feat to catch up).(2) If you think a high-level fighter needs something even more on the combat side, so that there is a reason for not veering off into the good BAB prestige classes and foregoing the high levels of fighter, perhaps something like:At levels 3/7/11/15/19, the fighter gains cumulative +1 to his Swing Mastery (for lack of a better term). +N in Swing Mastery allows your extra attacks to be calculated as if your BAB was N higher.This would mean that a fighter's BAB chart would effectively look like this:Level Attacks&nbsp;01&nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp;02&nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp;03&nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp;04&nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp;05&nbsp;&nbsp; +5/+1&nbsp;06&nbsp;&nbsp; +6/+2&nbsp;07&nbsp;&nbsp; +7/+4&nbsp;08&nbsp;&nbsp; +8/+5&nbsp;09&nbsp;&nbsp; +9/+6/+1&nbsp;10&nbsp;&nbsp; +10/+7/+2&nbsp;11&nbsp;&nbsp; +11/+9/+4&nbsp;12&nbsp;&nbsp; +12/+10/+5&nbsp;13&nbsp;&nbsp; +13/+11/+6/+1&nbsp;14&nbsp;&nbsp; +14/+12/+7/+2&nbsp;15&nbsp;&nbsp; +15/+14/+9/+4&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp; +16/+15/+10/+5&nbsp;17&nbsp;&nbsp; +17/+16/+11/+6&nbsp; [/+1 if you want to allow a 5th attack]&nbsp;18&nbsp;&nbsp; +18/+17/+12/+7&nbsp; [/+2 &quot;]&nbsp;19&nbsp;&nbsp; +19/+19/+14/+9&nbsp; [/+4 &quot;]&nbsp;20&nbsp;&nbsp; +20/+20/+15/+10 [/+5 &quot;]Now, I don't know if this is too powerful, but it certainly would make one think about whether to pursue those prestige classes for their cool stuff or just sticking with the basic fighter and being simply the best at straight fighting. Also, with this rule, reaching fighter level 3 would be significant for multiclassing rather than the blank level it is now. A fighter3/cleric3 would get +5/+1 attacks rather than just +5.-- Zerakon the Game Mageedit: lining up columns</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Zerakon, post: 1125663, member: 12921"] Interesting thread. I agree that the fighter is poorly designed. Great for the low levels + horrible at high levels leads to an extreme multiclass incentive which is poor design. Weapon specialization/greater weapon focus/greater weapon specialization with their "fighter level X" seems merely a half-hearted attempt at a fix. I almost wanted to say that the problem lies with broken prestige classes, but I think it is moreso that the fighter is a weak baseline. I don't have any splatbooks so my knowledge of all the prestige classes is severely limited, but I will say that when designing my own prestige classes, I feel handcuffed by the fighter's poor baseline. I'm still debating exactly what my preferred fix would be, but here are some of my thoughts for building a better baseline fighter: (1) If you think a fighter's skills are too weak and he could use a "non-combat schtick," give him: [COLOR=Cyan]4 skill points per level instead of 2 with a much better list of class skills (something on the scale of the rogue's list but with Ride included and drop some specialist stuff like Decipher Script, Use Magic Device, etc.) BUT with the drawback that the maximum rank the fighter can achieve is level+1 rather than the standard level+3.[/COLOR] This would allow the fighter to be somewhat of a minor jack-of-all-trades, truly master of none as he's always 2 ranks behind the best in the party at any particular skill (unless he takes a Skill Focus feat to catch up). (2) If you think a high-level fighter needs something even more on the combat side, so that there is a reason for not veering off into the good BAB prestige classes and foregoing the high levels of fighter, perhaps something like: [COLOR=Cyan]At levels 3/7/11/15/19, the fighter gains cumulative +1 to his Swing Mastery (for lack of a better term). +N in Swing Mastery allows your extra attacks to be calculated as if your BAB was N higher.[/COLOR] This would mean that a fighter's BAB chart would [i]effectively[/i] look like this: [FONT=Courier New]Level Attacks 01 +1 02 +2 03 +3 04 +4 05 +5/+1 06 +6/+2 07 +7/+4 08 +8/+5 09 +9/+6/+1 10 +10/+7/+2 11 +11/+9/+4 12 +12/+10/+5 13 +13/+11/+6/+1 14 +14/+12/+7/+2 15 +15/+14/+9/+4 16 +16/+15/+10/+5 17 +17/+16/+11/+6 [/+1 if you want to allow a 5th attack] 18 +18/+17/+12/+7 [/+2 "] 19 +19/+19/+14/+9 [/+4 "] 20 +20/+20/+15/+10 [/+5 "][/FONT] Now, I don't know if this is too powerful, but it certainly would make one think about whether to pursue those prestige classes for their [i]cool stuff[/i] or just sticking with the basic fighter and being simply the best at [i]straight fighting[/i]. Also, with this rule, reaching fighter level 3 would be significant for multiclassing rather than the blank level it is now. A fighter3/cleric3 would get +5/+1 attacks rather than just +5. -- Zerakon the Game Mage edit: lining up columns [/QUOTE]

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