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<blockquote data-quote="Norfleet" data-source="post: 1127332" data-attributes="member: 11581">Sorry, Chief, but don't think that actually works. Cosmopolitan, IIRC, is NOT on the list of fighter bonus feats. That, unfortunately, means a fighter CAN'T take them as fighter bonus feats, although if he's a human, he can take two using his standard and racial feats at first level....which is probably the only time you SHOULD take them, since otherwise, you won't actually have any skillpoints to put in them, or will have already burned the skillpoints on cross-class penalties.But yeah, two skillpoints per level, plus an abyssally bad skill list, does sort of suck. And Spot and Listen aren't even on the class skill list. If a fighter happened to learn his fighting art in a jungle climate, I seriously doubt riding would be high on his list of things-to-know, whereas spotting and listening for enemies hiding in the trees would certainly be on the list of things-to-know.That, and the idea of spot and listen as skills that one trains in at the expense of something else is a little weird: You don't become WORSE at other skills or lack them entirely because you were observant: In fact, you would become BETTER at other skills, because you were observant and could therefore learn them in less time than others! I'm a fairly observant person: I probably have a decent spot skill (although as a fine connoisseur of explosions, my listen skill undoubtedly suffers): This didn't happen because I spent my time staring into space trying to practice spotting things: It was more or less an innate aptitude, which improved with practice....and you can't really NOT practice them unless you walk around blindfolded with earplugs...which arguably is a great way to practice one's Balance skill.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Norfleet, post: 1127332, member: 11581"] Sorry, Chief, but don't think that actually works. Cosmopolitan, IIRC, is NOT on the list of fighter bonus feats. That, unfortunately, means a fighter CAN'T take them as fighter bonus feats, although if he's a human, he can take two using his standard and racial feats at first level....which is probably the only time you SHOULD take them, since otherwise, you won't actually have any skillpoints to put in them, or will have already burned the skillpoints on cross-class penalties. But yeah, two skillpoints per level, plus an abyssally bad skill list, does sort of suck. And Spot and Listen aren't even on the class skill list. If a fighter happened to learn his fighting art in a jungle climate, I seriously doubt riding would be high on his list of things-to-know, whereas spotting and listening for enemies hiding in the trees would certainly be on the list of things-to-know. That, and the idea of spot and listen as skills that one trains in at the expense of something else is a little weird: You don't become WORSE at other skills or lack them entirely because you were observant: In fact, you would become BETTER at other skills, because you were observant and could therefore learn them in less time than others! I'm a fairly observant person: I probably have a decent spot skill (although as a fine connoisseur of explosions, my listen skill undoubtedly suffers): This didn't happen because I spent my time staring into space trying to practice spotting things: It was more or less an innate aptitude, which improved with practice....and you can't really NOT practice them unless you walk around blindfolded with earplugs...which arguably is a great way to practice one's Balance skill. [/QUOTE]

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