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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Magius del Cotto" data-source="post: 1131558" data-attributes="member: 6554">The thing of it is that you shouldn't have to face that sort of manipulation to make the type of fighter you want.  Let's have a look at one of the classic examples of this: the Knight Errant.  The honorable swordsman who would never strike at his opponent from the back (negating the rogue levels), the warrior who has no magical abilities outside of his equipment (eleminating everything else save Barbarian), and who is definitely well groomed.This sort of character needs Diplomacy in addition to the standard list of Fighter skills.  And you know what?  He's going to be better at it than he is at making his own equipment, climbing/jumping around, or much of anything else.  Assuming an intelligence of 13 (what's needed for the expertise he'll be taking at some point), he'd have Ride, Diplomacy, and Handle Animal, all on equal footing.The only way to do this, according to your analysis, is to multiclass or take feats.  I disagree.  This should be one of the basic archetypes that can be built with the fighter, but the simple fact is that it isn't, not without messing with the class itself (something that, if the class were built correctly, you wouldn't have to do), or taking extra feats to do it (feats that could better define the character, and whether you think it or not, 2 feats is an awefully high price to pay to build an archetype).This, of course, doesn't address the need for more skill points, but I think it's a fairly moot point at this point because the fighter really doesn't have the skills to handle the skill points he has right now.  If you have an int above 15, you're probably going to run out of class skills to define your character!And I think I've made my point, so I'll stop rambling now.Magius out.</blockquote>

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