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<blockquote data-quote="Curugul" data-source="post: 1132887" data-attributes="member: 9447">FrankYour a hero.&nbsp;&nbsp; Followed your breaking of various class's for a long time.&nbsp; The octi-druid was priceless.&nbsp; How did you figure THAT one out?&nbsp; I like to think I powergame pretty well, but you're a league of your own.&nbsp; Seriously, you're a bastion of intelligence and logic in an internet sea awash in arguments and opinions so inane my eyes cross.To this thread:&nbsp; How is this even up for argument?&nbsp;&nbsp; With core books used (I'd guess 15% of groups, maby less), and NO prc's allowed, a fighter is among, if not THE, weakest class post 8-12.&nbsp; It just gets pointless, a feat in NO WAY comes close to new abilities, skills, class features others get in levels 12-20. Fighters PRC away at the very first opportunity.&nbsp; Thats fine, I guess, many class's do.&nbsp; Whats not fine is how weak they are if they DONT prc/multiclass.&nbsp;&nbsp; Weak.&nbsp; The only leg anyone's had to argue on is &quot;Feats r good&quot; or the priceless &quot;In my game...&quot;.&nbsp; We're not talking generalities.&nbsp; We're not talking specific games where rules/situations balance anything based on players, gms whim, and numerous variables.&nbsp; We're talking about the core, written, non arguable power a fighter gets.&nbsp; His hitpoints aren't up for debate.&nbsp; Neither are his skills, his class list, any of it.&nbsp;&nbsp; Compare it, as a pure, single class character, to any other class in the game, levels 10-20.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Compare its Combat Power to any other class made for fighting.&nbsp;&nbsp; You'll find they either are less, equal to, or better at fighting than a fighter of those levels. That alone should make anyone with a shred of desire for balance pause.&nbsp; Now compare EVERYTHING ELSE (see: Skills, spells, special powers, utility, ANYTHING to do outside of direct combat that can impact a campaign through the rolling of dice, NOT roleplaying).&nbsp; Fighter, dead last, by a HUGE margin.&nbsp;&nbsp; Seriously, tell me honestly:&nbsp; Do you really believe the fighter is such a better combatent than Sorcerors, Barbs, Rogues, Clerics, ect, that his power outside combat should be lower than theirs by such an abysmal margin?&nbsp; Curugul</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Curugul, post: 1132887, member: 9447"] [b]Frank[/b] Your a hero. Followed your breaking of various class's for a long time. The octi-druid was priceless. How did you figure THAT one out? I like to think I powergame pretty well, but you're a league of your own. Seriously, you're a bastion of intelligence and logic in an internet sea awash in arguments and opinions so inane my eyes cross. To this thread: How is this even up for argument? With core books used (I'd guess 15% of groups, maby less), and NO prc's allowed, a fighter is among, if not THE, weakest class post 8-12. It just gets pointless, a feat in NO WAY comes close to new abilities, skills, class features others get in levels 12-20. Fighters PRC away at the very first opportunity. Thats fine, I guess, many class's do. Whats not fine is how weak they are if they DONT prc/multiclass. Weak. The only leg anyone's had to argue on is "Feats r good" or the priceless "In my game...". We're not talking [I]generalities[/I]. We're not talking specific games where rules/situations balance anything based on players, gms whim, and numerous variables. We're talking about the [B]core, written, non arguable power a fighter gets[/B]. His hitpoints aren't up for debate. Neither are his skills, his class list, any of it. Compare it, as a pure, single class character, to any other class in the game, levels 10-20. Compare its Combat Power to any other class made for fighting. You'll find they either are less, equal to, or better at fighting than a fighter of those levels. That alone should make anyone with a shred of desire for balance pause. Now compare EVERYTHING ELSE (see: Skills, spells, special powers, utility, ANYTHING to do outside of direct combat that can impact a campaign through the rolling of dice, NOT roleplaying). Fighter, dead last, by a HUGE margin. Seriously, tell me honestly: Do you really believe the fighter is such a better combatent than Sorcerors, Barbs, Rogues, Clerics, ect, that his power outside combat should be lower than theirs by such an abysmal margin? Curugul [/QUOTE]

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