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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Humanophile" data-source="post: 1132972" data-attributes="member: 1049">Let me tackle the "Fighter is too weak" position, point by point:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Vs. a Prestige class:  No comparison.  Sadly, this is because core classes tend to be so focused that they have little to give up to get a PrC's powers.  Ask any mage type what's worth giving up for PrC powers.  Add to this the fact that "official" PrC's tend to be on the powerful side, and unofficial ones even more so.  So that's a complete side issue. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skill points per level:  Not truly weak, for the reasons many other people have given.  However, I do agree with many people who think that 2/level isn't enough skill points to give a character interest and versatility.  So while this is fairly balanced powerwise, it leads to boring characters.  More skill points/hobby rules are in order, but across the board fro all character types (or at least all core classes). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skill selection:  Yeah, this just flat out sucks, and should've been improved in 3.5.  I think that stealth and sensory skills are some of the "best skills" out there, and you should think twice before handing them out, but as far as concept versatility goes, the following skills are perfect for fighter concepts without being more powerful than anything else: -Balance:  You're running around in places where the floor's not maintained, and you're wearing heavy armor.  Fighters should have the ability to do more than comically fall down when trying to engage enemies.  Really, folks, this should be a no-brainer. -Heal:  You're not a cleric, but I can see more than enough "fighting-type guy" concepts that learned how to patch up their friends on the battlefield. -Knowledge (Architecture&Engineering, History, Nobility&Royalty):  All three allow for general types who know how to set up a battlefield.  The latter two (especially the last) are ideal for noble night types.  History is good for cranky old veteran wannabes.  All of these seem like Fighter based archetypes. -Profession:  Like everyone else, I see no reason why anyone except the unsocialized, likely illiterate Barbarian is missing these.  They're all nice background info, and many of them fit quite well with fighting types. I fully grant that these skills should be givens.  Some of the more powerful/popular ones might be included later, but for now I see no reason why these options would change the fighter's power level one bit. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Feats and fighting styles:  Remember what I said about Balance being a no-brainer above?  The same attitude that leads to people missing that ("What?  I thought all caves had flat, even floors.") also leads to the Fighter's feat advantage being overlooked.  A true "master of battle" would be able to handle himself in a large number of situations and tactics.  Feats like Blind Fight, Endurance, Improved (whatever), etc. would be used semi-often, but more attractive to the Fighter with his larger selection of feats.  Instead, while the Weapon Focus/Specialization chain is a nice perk for Fighters, it's usually turned into their only perk, and it pales in comparison with just about any class feature anyone else has, or for that matter pretty much any buff a spellcaster could throw on you.  So while an ideal DM could make the fighter stand out by letting his ability to shine in multiple combat situations be noted, including many sub-par conditions, instead fighters seem to be typed as pure bashers/archers which leads to quickly tapping out their feat options.</li> </ul>So to get at several ends of the arguement, the Fighter shouldn't be expanded outside of his role (read: military scouts should have levels of Rogue, sensory/stealth skills need not go to pure fighters), it seems that their only real advantage is one that's neatly overlooked in most campaigns.  Still, it's less an issue of pure feat-to-feat loss (not all feats are created equal, as anyone with Toughness will tell you), but rather a lack of good high-end feats to chose from.  Give them a little more skill wiggle room and some better feats, and I'd like to see power comparisons then.</blockquote>

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