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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ketjak" data-source="post: 1142729" data-attributes="member: 1083">Your statement is as valid for Fighters as it is for Rangers or any other combat class. The levels at which Fighters have two or more combat styles either mastered or under development mandate the use of magic for all classes. For what it's worth, by tenth level the Fighter has all the combat feats/style of a Ranger-archer and is on his way to Whirlwind Attack. If the Ranger has chosen TWF path and the Fighter is emulating the Ranger, the Fighter has Whirlwind attack. Putting everything they have into it, Rangers get Whirlwind attack at 15th level.This is a factually incorrect statement, including Takyris' statement about Rangers being better than Fighters at their chosen path (except for one occasion at 11th level). <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> All respect is given to all participants in the following paragraphs!First, the Ranger is not better than the Fighter at the combat style he chooses except at 11th level. The Fighter achieves superiority again at 12 th level, and his damage output never wavers. If the Fighter specialized in the same weapons as the Ranger, the Ranger is only barely better than the Fighter at - and only at - 11th level. Second, each of those classes gets a narrow-band benefit pending the existence of certain conditions (raging, versus twice-favored enemy at 11th level, target is flanked and not immune to critical hits or sneak attacks). While those conditions exist, it is possible they're doing more damage than a Fighter. Groovy for them! When those conditions don't exist (calm emotion spell or after rage, in any combat besides with a favored enemy, or against undead/constructs/oozes/uncanny dodgers), the Fighter continues tearing down the bad guys.A benefit that provides a bonus in a narrow range of situations is worth less than a benefit that provides the same benefit across a wide range - or all - situations. To be equal, the narrow benefit should be greater than the wide benefit. Of all the narrow-benefit warrior types, the Barbarian is about equal and only the Fighter's diversity in technique makes the Barbarian his marginal, but arguable, inferior in combat.I don't recall seeing those in the PHB or another WotC prodct. I don't own them all, though - can you tell me where I can find them?Favored enemy is not worth three feats. Though it provides +2 to five skills (normally worth 2.5 feats) and the equivalent of Weapon Specialization with all weapons (1 feat), these effects are only useful against one category or sub-category of opponents. The skill bonuses are at best worth half that value, and more likely less. The Weapon Specialization bonus benefit is canceled out by the restrictive nature of the ability, so it's probably 1 feat. A minor quibble.Hide in Plain Sight is arguably the best of the other features. While it allows the Ranger to use Hide skill, he can only use it in restricted conditions ("natural terrain"). Still, it's quite useful.Each of the other abilities the Ranger gets is non-combat, and is not worth the same as combat abilities considering the orientation of the core rules and in context with them. Individual campaigns may vary as Takyris described, and that's wonderful to see. In heavily political games, the Fighter is not as useful as the Rogue or Bard, or even the Cleric. The class was not designed to be.Fighters don't need skill points or more magic than any other class. They get combat feat versatility, making them the master at combat. They don't do as much damage as the Barbarian does when he's raging, which does not happen all the time. The Ranger must choose the same enemy two, then three, times to keep up with damage output, but he's out-fought by the Fighter against enemies of another type. The Rogue must be in position, probably behind enemy lines to use his ability.The Fighter needs a weapon to use most of his abilities. That's it.[edit: fixed a spelling error]</blockquote>

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