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<blockquote data-quote="Ketjak" data-source="post: 1143935" data-attributes="member: 1083">Frank, you cited the Fighter versatility examples in Sword &amp; Fist as better &quot;Fighters&quot; than Fighters... and yet they illustrated my point exactly: that a Fighter can be what a player wants it to be! I already saw that... I can't help it if my imagination allowed me to see how to use feats, skills, and abilities to create those characters. Of course, Frank. Insults are the refuge of those who have no argument. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> It's okay; stop trying to paint a class as undesirable when it is only in the context of ignorance of fact (Fighter vs Ranger), comparisons to prestige classes (the &quot;dragoon&quot;), a desire to min-max with the best of the munchkins (having all the abilities you want), and a lack of imagination (no flexibility in the Fighter class for creating the character you want). Instead, try using facts (Fighter combat feats vs Ranger combat abilities), analyses (Fighter design and average damage vs Ranger design and average damage), and stick with the definitions of terms published already, rather than reinventing them to suit an otherwise dubious position (Fighter, not Fighter). <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Anyone else care to show how the Fighter sucks or is out of balance with other classes? Someone with a sound argument, that is. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ketjak, post: 1143935, member: 1083"] Frank, [i]you[/i] cited the Fighter versatility examples in Sword & Fist as better "Fighters" than Fighters... and yet they illustrated my point exactly: that a Fighter can be what a player wants it to be! I already saw that... I can't help it if my imagination allowed me to see how to use feats, skills, and abilities to create those characters. Of course, Frank. Insults are the refuge of those who have no argument. :) It's okay; stop trying to paint a class as undesirable when it is only in the context of ignorance of fact (Fighter vs Ranger), comparisons to prestige classes (the "dragoon"), a desire to min-max with the best of the munchkins (having all the abilities you want), and a lack of imagination (no flexibility in the Fighter class for creating the character you want). Instead, try using facts (Fighter combat feats vs Ranger combat abilities), analyses (Fighter design and average damage vs Ranger design and average damage), and stick with the definitions of terms published already, rather than reinventing them to suit an otherwise dubious position ([i]Fighter[/i], not Fighter). :) Anyone else care to show how the Fighter sucks or is out of balance with other classes? Someone with a sound argument, that is. :) [/QUOTE]

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