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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrankTrollman" data-source="post: 1146707" data-attributes="member: 14225">No. You really did nothing of the sort. You just wrote up two incomplete characters with different fighting styles and equipment and announced that the Fighter was "better" without even spending all of the ranger's advantages. What, if anything, that was supposed to prove, is completely beyond me.And I have. So when you hand wave and say that it "sounds balanced" you don't really have anything to stand on.I've made low-level Ranger Builds that outperform the Fighter in all ways. I've made low-level Barbarian builds that outperform the Fighter in all ways. I've produced high level multiclassed characters which outperform the Fighter in all ways.What more do you want? Blood?All ways means everything. More feats, higher to-hit and damage bonuses, better saving throws, higher AC, more in-combat abilities and better utility outside of combat. Everything. And you still claim that your purposeful disregarding of several Ranger perks and deliberate underspending on equipment somehow make the characters "equal". It's like talking to a wall.Of course, the worst part is that you are sort-of right. While the Fighter is underpowered compared to other Warrior classes (and even more so when compared to Rogues and Spellcasters) - in an actual game it may in fact be balanced. Treasure dispersal is the sole propriety of the DM. If the DM gives out the Axe of the Dwarven Lords, the Dwarven Fighter in the party will be incredibly powerful. In fact, the player in question could be a Warrior or other NPC class - and still be powerful.Something has to be done to make the Fighter better in order to make it balanced - but it doesn't have to be done in the rules, it can be done seperately for each campaign. Thus, while your illustration of how an underequipped Ranger is outperformed in some ways by a superiorly outfitted Fighter was doubtless an attempt at the worst form of debating malarcky - it actually has some merit. The DM can simply equip the Fighter character with better stuff than the rest of the party and the party will be balanced.That they have to do so is, I think, a flaw in the system. Of course, if you want all of your campaigns to be a Frodo-esque Artifact Hunt - then game balance virtually requires one of the characters to be underpowered so that they can hold the Artifact without upsetting the rest of the game. Still, if that's your argument - and I don't see what else it could be - then you should at least back off and admit that for those of us who want to disperse roughly equivalent swag to all of our player characters - the Fighter needs a boost.-Frank</blockquote>

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