Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="reapersaurus" data-source="post: 1150143" data-attributes="member: 1194">Frank - that last post of yours brought in everything but the kitchen sink, and therefore digressed the discussion.I'll try to keep some focus here:You compared the fighter to a Barbarian, Ranger, and Paladin.I'm no expert on the new Ranger, so I'll leave that to others.However, it has been statistically proven (conclusively enough for me) in other threads, that a fighter will BEAT a Barbarian of equal level.If memory serves, this was due to the Fighter's use of Expertise to outlast the Bbn's Rage, then chop him up when he's fatigued.If anyone can search for it and post a link, it will prove to you Frank that the Ftr is better in combat than the Bbn. However, you mentioned the Bbn is better out-of-combat due to the 4 skillpoints and reasonable skills list.In 3.5, the Bbn only has Listen and Survival more than the fighter.I wouldn't call that dominating, though the 4 skillpoints is.So now let's compare the Ftr and Paladin, shall we?(you shouldn't have brought up the Paladin, Frank)I happen to know for a fact that the Paladin is worse than the Ftr in combat. I could point it out, example after example, but all you have to do is look at what the Pal gets for offensive abilities, and they don't even come close to comparing to the Ftr's bonus feats.So that leaves us with the Paladin's utter dominance in out-of-combat. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Well, they only get 4 skills the Ftr doesn't (Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge, and Sense Motive), whereas the Ftr gets 3 skills the Pal doesn't (Intimidate, Jump & Swim).We could go deep into it, but basically, due to the Paladin's absolute attribute-crunch, his only 'dump' stat is INT. Therefore, he will be lucky to get 2 skillpoints per level (8 INT and human), as opposed to the Ftr who very likely could have 4 skillpoints (12 INT and human). Since the Pal arguably doesn't have enough skill points to even remotely take advantage of the few class skills he has more than the Ftr, I'd have to say that since the Ftr can easily have twice as many skillpoints, than the skills comparison goes to the humble Ftr.This leaves the Paladin's other non-combat abilities: Detect Evil and ... umm..  I guess that's it. Other than the pathetic spells he has, I don't see any non-combat bennies the Paladin is getting that aren't available to the Ftr.So let's sum up:The Ftr will have higher INT (if he wants) than the Pal, and therefore many more skillpoints. The Paladin doesn't have a significantly better skill list, and only has Detect Evil 'over' the Ftr in non-combat. The Ftr is better in combat than the Pal (we can discuss this more if you'd like).So I have just presented a case that shows how the Paladin is even WORSE off than the Ftr in exactly the areas you have been discussing for lo this whole long thread.If your points are:a) that multiclassed characters are stronger than single-classed characters, then....DUH.b) that the Ftr is inordinantly weaker than all other classes, then...   I have just shown a case where the Paladin is even weaker.Oh, I forgot to add in the incredibly-restrictive Code that the Paladin has, which effectively gives the Ftr a huge bonus to out-of-combat flexibility in comparison, due to the Ftr not having to be limited in the same ways.</blockquote>

Verification