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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 1152758" data-attributes="member: 2011">Did I? Are you sure?No, you can paraphrase it to the non-PHB feats are often overpowered.The wizard basically gains 4 new spells and 3 to 4 (depending on stat modifier) spells he can cast per day. The fighter gains a feat.Everything else is basically a wash.So, is it worth it? Probably. The fighter can use that feat round after round after round, day after day after day. The wizard can use those spells 3 times per day.The wizard gains versatility and power. The fighter gains reusability and power.But, your entire analysis assumes that the wizard can actually survive to 20th level where his versatility and power overwhelm that of the 20th level fighter.I think that is a poor assumption for most wizard characters. If they start out at first level, their chances of survival are worse than a fighters, especially at low level where a single shot can get them below zero hit points.And, it is not just hit points. It is also AC. If the low level wizard boosts his AC with Mage Armor and/or Shield, sure, he has a similar AC to the fighter. But suddenly, he has one or two fewer spells, fewer hit points, and a weaker weapon attack.Sure, the wizard has Scribe Scroll and can put his cash into scrolls to help him. But while he is doing that, the fighter is putting his cash into permanent magical items.If the wizard finds more spells (beyond his 2 per level allotment) and adds them to his book, he is burning through 200 GP per spell level of his cash on that.Hence, the fighter should typically have more money with which to purchase items (if that is allowed in the game). The wizard can get more advanced item creation feats, but that is using up his precious feats to lower the cost of items that he wants. Money versus feats.All in all, I think the entire issue is mostly a wash. Each class has pros and cons. The fighter is more (or just as) powerful until about 7th level. So, his chances of surviving to get to that point are greater. The wizards chances before that point are less, but after that point are greater.In my experience though, that's a wash. We tend to start our campaigns at low level (first through third) and have not had any last much beyond tenth (usually people move out of town or want to start their own or a different campaign or other life issues intrude). Hence, just at the point where the wizard (if he survives) is starting to hold his own or actually shine, the campaign ends.So sure, if you do run high level campaigns, you are starting at the point were the wizard has enough spells to be versatile over several combats and can outshine the fighter.But even at something like 15th level, that verstility and power does not prevent the wizard (or the fighter for that matter) from being killed from a single 50+ point dragon breath or a single swing of a fighters vorpal sword, or even a gray ooze dropping on his head.If a DM plays his NPCs stupidly, sure you can have the wizards hide behind the front line of combatant types and be attacked less often. But, if the DM plays a plausible game (i.e. ones where the NPC characters and creatures play to the best of their abilities because that is how they survive), then wizards will get attacked by creatures nearly as often as fighers do. In those cases, it is the wizard who is "underpowered", even at higher levels. IMO.Hence, it all balances out in the long run as long as the players are having fun.</blockquote>

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