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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JiffyPopTart" data-source="post: 8089324" data-attributes="member: 4881">The difference between a race inherently good, neutral, or bad at a particular attribute in 5e boils down to how long in your adventuring career it takes you to reach a 20.  It can vary from 8th level at best, 12th for most, and 16 in the extreme couple examples of the few races that have a -2.  We have already established that a half-orc and a kobold adventurer are going to both become the strongest strong that is possible, it just happens sooner for the half-orc.You aren't enforcing any sort of X is better than Y overall because of the natural stop-sign of getting a 20 in an attribute. Other than maybe 4 or 5 of the rare races that get a negative attribute at the start...you literally only have a 4 level window before the PCs are all sitting at a 20 and moving on to selecting feats or bumping up other attributes.I don't view this 4 (8 on the extreme) level window as doing anything to enforce "how a race feels in the world" and I don't view how a race normally feels in the world as having to apply to PCs.  Their very nature of being adventurers and having class levels already means they aren't playing by the same rules as the rest of the world.To state this a different way....the stat bonuses a PC uses when creating a character do not define how a race works in the world of the game.  They strictly define how a player character of that race is created.  The stats in the Monster Manual define how an orc or a kobold works in the world of the game.  Nobody is complaining that the orc in the MM has a higher STR score than the kobold or a lower INT score than an elf.  What people are saying is that they shouldn't be penalized (by being behind by +1 or 2 in mod scores for 12-16 levels) for playing once race versus another AS A CHARACTER because of the fiction of the world that they exist in.If you strongly believe that the strongest orc is always stronger than the strongest kobold, or that the smartest elf is always smarter than the smartest orc, then you should be championing changes to the hard limit of a 20 for player character attribute scores to make that happen.Similarly, if you believe that an orc and a kobold can end up equally strong, then you should also support that an orc and a kobold player character can start gameplay equally strong.</blockquote>

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