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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9511159" data-attributes="member: 42582">In a system that has gods and the like, I think it can be helpful for the system to also provide some guidance on these sorts of matters.Of course, that guidance won't necessarily create the game, or fiction, someone is looking for. That's one reason for having multiple different games!So, in AD&D the rules spell out (with only a small amount of contradiction between the PHB and the DMG) how clerics relate to the gods. At low levels, not at all - 1st and 2nd level spells are essentially "rotes" that the character can prepare and perform due to their training. At mid levels, via intermediaries - 3rd to 5th level spells are bestowed upon the cleric by such beings. And then at upper levels, directly - the god is the granter of 6th and 7th level spells.So a low-level cleric of Odin can speak a prayer, but unless performing an Augury ritual (or similar low-level spell) is really no better off than a common person praying to Odin. So that can be resolved via the Divine Intervention rules (found in the DMG). At higher levels, the communion takes place when memorising spells, and so the GM could use that as an opportunity to have an intermediary, or Odin himself, advise or even dictate to the cleric.I don't know if the above is fully satisfying, in fiction and game play terms, but it is a model that can be applied by GM and player.4e D&D takes a very different approach, without imposing the same "structure" or certainty that AD&D does. In my main 4e game, the player of the paladin would very frequently pray to the Raven Queen, from 1st level onwards. As the GM, I used the improvised action and skill challenge rules to handle this. Other players (via their PCs) would also get in on this sort of action from time to time. Here's an example of the sort of approach that I took:You won't be surprised that, for me, the 4e approach is more satisfying than the AD&D approach. But both create a framework which is not just "shutting down".</blockquote>

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