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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9514008" data-attributes="member: 6785785">Yes, but we're also talking about the idea of the suggested rule zero... that the goal is for everyone to have fun. So while the rules may say something is up to the DM, if it results in players being unhappy, maybe the rule needs to be examined, and possibly changed. And yes, that would basically be the same thing. It would be the GM going with the player's idea. This is really all that's being suggested. Might there be times when it doesn't make sense to go with it? Sure, that's gonna happen. But can an effort be made to try and find a way to incorporate the player's idea? I would say absolutely yes. I think we all agree there may be times when it makes sense to deny such a request. However, I think it also helps to assume good faith by the players. If the players are the kind to see any advantage as something they can always exploit, you might need to be a little stricter about this stuff. There may be good reasons to say no. There's probably even a few that almost all of us would agree on. But aside from those possible few, opinions and preferences will vary. Based on what we know of [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] 's games, we know that he expects a high amount of player input in determining the thrust of the game, and he's not a fan of secret backstory as being more important than player input. I think that denying player requests in favor of the GM's ideas is certainly something that can be described as railroading. Thresholds for it will vary.  No, I don't really see that big a difference. Sure, one's on a higher scale... but I think you're also overstating the assistance provided by Odin when I made suggestions about [USER=6801845]@Oofta[/USER] 's example. And again, I suggested that it come with a significant drawback. Finding an item is something that can be done by a lot of sources. It can be mundane or magical, local or planar. I read the example as a pretty typical D&D style quest. Generally speaking, when someone describes the goal of play to find a macguffin, and that macguffin is hidden in some way, my expectation is that the PCs are meant to try and find it. So when someone comes up with an idea to try to find it, I'm going to try to work with that. That the item was warded from scrying and all that... that's all fiction invented or injected to make the finding of it harder, right? So I'm assuming there were steps that needed to be completed to be able to eventually find the item. A lot of hoops to jump through. I'm indifferent about that. I don't care about the hoops. if someone comes up with a good or flavorful idea, then I'm all for it. If that involves leveraging an established relationship for assistance, then cool... let's see if we can get that to work. Okay, cool. I don't think we're that far apart here. No one's solving a mystery, though.</blockquote>

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