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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9514754" data-attributes="member: 6785785">I mean, it doesn't sound that far from a video game. Like there's a quest and you can engage with the quest in the predetermined manner, or you can like go off and kill pigs in the forest!A couple things here. Do you view character creation as part of play? Do you see how what you're saying here is basically &quot;all this stuff requires DM approval&quot;? You even tend to attribute this to the worldbuilding or setting or work the DM has already done. Now, it's fine if you and your players are satisfied with that... but when we're talking about player contribution, let's acknowledge that it's limited in the method you're describing. Well, no... there's rule zero, right? I mean... the word rule is right there in the name. This whole conversation is about finding ways to tweak what exists to make the participants happy. So in that sense, who cares if it deviates from the rules? That's the point! Maybe that's part of the problem?I mean, if I had a player who entered &quot;Verbobonc&quot; as his home city, I'd expect there to be some connections there. That the decision mattered in some way. Did the player pick Odin out of some interest in playing a cleric of Odin? Did he bring Odin to the setting? Or did he simply pick Odin from a list of available deities and their associated subclasses, and go with Odin? Or did he just cover his eyes and plop his finger down on the page and it happened to land next to Odin?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 9514754, member: 6785785"] I mean, it doesn't sound that far from a video game. Like there's a quest and you can engage with the quest in the predetermined manner, or you can like go off and kill pigs in the forest! A couple things here. Do you view character creation as part of play? Do you see how what you're saying here is basically "all this stuff requires DM approval"? You even tend to attribute this to the worldbuilding or setting or work the DM has already done. Now, it's fine if you and your players are satisfied with that... but when we're talking about player contribution, let's acknowledge that it's limited in the method you're describing. Well, no... there's rule zero, right? I mean... the word rule is right there in the name. This whole conversation is about finding ways to tweak what exists to make the participants happy. So in that sense, who cares if it deviates from the rules? That's the point! Maybe that's part of the problem? I mean, if I had a player who entered "Verbobonc" as his home city, I'd expect there to be some connections there. That the decision mattered in some way. Did the player pick Odin out of some interest in playing a cleric of Odin? Did he bring Odin to the setting? Or did he simply pick Odin from a list of available deities and their associated subclasses, and go with Odin? Or did he just cover his eyes and plop his finger down on the page and it happened to land next to Odin? [/QUOTE]

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