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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 7559367" data-attributes="member: 85870"><p>Maybe six or seven years ago I had a conversation on these forums about this very topic around why I felt 4e was giving me such a poor play experience. </p><p></p><p>My view at the time (and still remains) was that CRPGs have now vastly exceeded TTRPGs' ability to plug in to this kind of input/reward/feedback loop. The games you've mentioned, plus things like Diablo, Torchlight---oh, and dare I say World of Warcraft?---are all vastly <em>better</em> at expediting the explore/reward/feedback loop than TTRPGs are.</p><p></p><p>Even CRPGs that go for bigger, broader storylines like the Baldur's Gate series, Pillars of Eternity, Knights of the Old Republic, Skyrim, etc., still have a much <em>faster</em> action/reward/feedback loop than TTRPGs.</p><p></p><p>And it's my considered opinion that 4e failed in large part because it was trying to replicate this action/reward/feedback loop as a tabletop experience, but it was doomed to fail from the start, because it neither A) differentiated itself from CRPG products that were already doing this, and doing it well, and B) the actual gameplay experience couldn't "complete the loop" fast enough to engage the player base it was ostensibly targeting.</p><p></p><p>You don't pull in a World of Warcraft player into the TTRPG market by saying, "It's just like WoW, only you roll dice!" You pull them into the market because it offers a DIFFERENT experience.</p><p></p><p>Am I saying that TTRPGs can't offer some of this same feedback loop? Well, yes of course it can. I mean, the entire OSR movement is a testament to this fact. But trying to distill TTRPG play into this kind of action/reward/feedback loop <em>indefinitely</em> I think is ultimately a lost cause. Because CRPGs simply do this better, faster, and with less upfront investment in time, money, and required social capital. </p><p></p><p>I'd be infinitely curious to hear from the One-True-Sandboxers out there if they really do like "sandboxing" the whole time----or if the "sandboxing" portion of the campaign is just a ramp-up to get their hooks into the game world / plot so they can start pursuing stuff that matters to their character.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="innerdude, post: 7559367, member: 85870"] Maybe six or seven years ago I had a conversation on these forums about this very topic around why I felt 4e was giving me such a poor play experience. My view at the time (and still remains) was that CRPGs have now vastly exceeded TTRPGs' ability to plug in to this kind of input/reward/feedback loop. The games you've mentioned, plus things like Diablo, Torchlight---oh, and dare I say World of Warcraft?---are all vastly [I]better[/I] at expediting the explore/reward/feedback loop than TTRPGs are. Even CRPGs that go for bigger, broader storylines like the Baldur's Gate series, Pillars of Eternity, Knights of the Old Republic, Skyrim, etc., still have a much [I]faster[/I] action/reward/feedback loop than TTRPGs. And it's my considered opinion that 4e failed in large part because it was trying to replicate this action/reward/feedback loop as a tabletop experience, but it was doomed to fail from the start, because it neither A) differentiated itself from CRPG products that were already doing this, and doing it well, and B) the actual gameplay experience couldn't "complete the loop" fast enough to engage the player base it was ostensibly targeting. You don't pull in a World of Warcraft player into the TTRPG market by saying, "It's just like WoW, only you roll dice!" You pull them into the market because it offers a DIFFERENT experience. Am I saying that TTRPGs can't offer some of this same feedback loop? Well, yes of course it can. I mean, the entire OSR movement is a testament to this fact. But trying to distill TTRPG play into this kind of action/reward/feedback loop [I]indefinitely[/I] I think is ultimately a lost cause. Because CRPGs simply do this better, faster, and with less upfront investment in time, money, and required social capital. I'd be infinitely curious to hear from the One-True-Sandboxers out there if they really do like "sandboxing" the whole time----or if the "sandboxing" portion of the campaign is just a ramp-up to get their hooks into the game world / plot so they can start pursuing stuff that matters to their character. [/QUOTE]
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