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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 7559848" data-attributes="member: 85555"><p>Just a thought on priorities in general, and not saying this applies to Maxperson as he may well be motivated soley by realism or immersion. But this is one of the reasons I mentioned these kinds of discussions sometimes lead to inverse GNS theory on the other side of the debate, and why I've moved away from putting as much stock in online gaming discussion as I once did. Before in this sort of exchange, I would embrace immersion as my priority without questioning the assumption of priories themselves. Just based on my own observations in play and my own personal experience of games, I don't think most people have a single priority. I think most people have a list of things they like and things they dislike. As those things come up, it impacts enjoyment of the game. Just like I might have a list of ten things that I find irritating when I watch movies (and the more they come up the more my interest wanes). And like I might have 10 things I really like and the more they come up, the more my interest is piqued (for instance, if a movie does a great job of packing drama on the turn of a dime, and uses compelling music to back it up, that always gets me as a viewer; if a movie has dialogue that sounds like it is just coming from the mouth of a writer trying to persuade me about something, that reduces my interest; if I see a blatant break down in internal logic, that also reduces my enjoyment). In gaming, I think most players are usually juggling a number of things they value. And it only really matters when those things are obvious in play. This is why bringing up obscure corners of the system or aspects of the game that are not immediately obvious to counter someone's stated preference, is not a terribly persuasive course. Add to that you usually have five different people at the table with different lists, and I think you can see why a game like D&D (which has to appeal to the biggest possible audience because it is THE ROLEPLAYING GAME) has to keep a certain level of plausibility and realism to retain crowd A, but not so much that it turns off crowd B. If you are someone for whom realism, or plausibility or immersion are important, D&D tends to hit the good enough mark. Plus you are probably also playing it for all other kinds of reasons. I think the games that can afford to have priorities are smaller RPGs that don't need the whole market. But even there, I think it is misguided to view systems that deliver prioritized play experience as better than those that don't. Most of my campaigns have people who want different things, and I can only think of one or two players who have a single overriding priority in my groups. For the most part, it is like when you go to a movie and you want a range of experiences. If you just focus on one, that can actually miss the point for a large number of people.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 7559848, member: 85555"] Just a thought on priorities in general, and not saying this applies to Maxperson as he may well be motivated soley by realism or immersion. But this is one of the reasons I mentioned these kinds of discussions sometimes lead to inverse GNS theory on the other side of the debate, and why I've moved away from putting as much stock in online gaming discussion as I once did. Before in this sort of exchange, I would embrace immersion as my priority without questioning the assumption of priories themselves. Just based on my own observations in play and my own personal experience of games, I don't think most people have a single priority. I think most people have a list of things they like and things they dislike. As those things come up, it impacts enjoyment of the game. Just like I might have a list of ten things that I find irritating when I watch movies (and the more they come up the more my interest wanes). And like I might have 10 things I really like and the more they come up, the more my interest is piqued (for instance, if a movie does a great job of packing drama on the turn of a dime, and uses compelling music to back it up, that always gets me as a viewer; if a movie has dialogue that sounds like it is just coming from the mouth of a writer trying to persuade me about something, that reduces my interest; if I see a blatant break down in internal logic, that also reduces my enjoyment). In gaming, I think most players are usually juggling a number of things they value. And it only really matters when those things are obvious in play. This is why bringing up obscure corners of the system or aspects of the game that are not immediately obvious to counter someone's stated preference, is not a terribly persuasive course. Add to that you usually have five different people at the table with different lists, and I think you can see why a game like D&D (which has to appeal to the biggest possible audience because it is THE ROLEPLAYING GAME) has to keep a certain level of plausibility and realism to retain crowd A, but not so much that it turns off crowd B. If you are someone for whom realism, or plausibility or immersion are important, D&D tends to hit the good enough mark. Plus you are probably also playing it for all other kinds of reasons. I think the games that can afford to have priorities are smaller RPGs that don't need the whole market. But even there, I think it is misguided to view systems that deliver prioritized play experience as better than those that don't. Most of my campaigns have people who want different things, and I can only think of one or two players who have a single overriding priority in my groups. For the most part, it is like when you go to a movie and you want a range of experiences. If you just focus on one, that can actually miss the point for a large number of people. [/QUOTE]
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