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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7568415" data-attributes="member: 82106">I see nothing in SYORTD which precludes this... I mean, if you over-literally assume the GM must utter the word "yes" without any ceremony, then sure, but I have not seen a game describe it that way. This is the old hoary time-honored blind alley which doubters of player-introduced goals constantly stumble down. Any game which is competently written/run doesn't have this issue. The GM introduces, via scene framing, challenges, NOT THE PLAYERS. These challenges are expected to relate to the player's interests, usually as evinced by the things their characters are, do, value, hate, etc. If players can introduce fiction into these sorts of setting, it is not in the context of "I am going to search for the gizmo. Oh look the gizmo is right here!" that would be a preposterous type of game, and it doesn't exist (except degenerately when something went terribly wrong with someone's reading of the rules). Instead players introduce fiction in terms of maybe acquiring a resource, or attaining progress towards a goal by some means. Finding a secret door which lets you evade the bad guys so you can achieve some goal is a good example. This would normally require a check, and failing would, perhaps, result in failing to evade said bad guys, or it might result in a secret door that dumps everyone into a pit on the next dungeon level when you close the door behind you! Usually these types of games are testing the CHARACTERS more than the players. This is because they are games in which the play is about producing dramatic play in which the characters' enter into conflict related to things interesting enough for the player to put them on the character sheet. So it isn't normally about the player being involved directly in the conflict. In this sense OD&D (which was often structured as a test of player skill) IS antithetical to this sort of play, entirely. I wouldn't generally create a scenario where the players must solve a puzzle in story now play. I'm not saying its impossible, and maybe there are games which have explored techniques for doing this. I don't think we have discussed this in any recent threads which come to mind. Certainly if some of the experts on this kind of play have something to add on that I'm curious.</blockquote>

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