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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7568641" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Sorry, I missed where the <em>game rules</em> say players can create content in X, Y, and Z. According to what you said above, it was specifically the <em>DM giving the permission to the players</em>. Unless the game gives that to the players, you're still at the <em>DM giving out power</em>, making that something the <em>DM can give away</em>, meaning it's still, ultimately, the <em>DM's power</em>. I'm pretty sure that you'd argue that even with player content creation the DM retains veto power, right? Or are you saying the D&D has, as part of it's mechanics, the ability for the player to create content without the DM having veto power? Heck, that's not even true for spells, which is the only D&D mechanic where players actually have content control, if very narrow.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're waving your hands, Max. What game is this that cannot be easily altered so that the DM gives the players permission to add things? Surely, since you've made this definition up yourself, you had an example in mind? </p><p></p><p>And, D&D is only easily altered like that via DM houserule -- note the "DM" part there. Your houserules are not a valid criteria for assessing how D&D is or is not a DM facing game. They cannot be, because your houserules are not what D&D is, they're just your houserules (and fine houserules, I'm sure).</p><p></p><p>I'm really not understanding why you feel the need to say D&D isn't strongly DM facing. This isn't a bad thing, unless you're looking to play games that aren't strongly DM facing. D&D is still the single most popular RPG by far more than a country mile, so being strongly DM facing clearly isn't a detriment to having a good time playing. Sure, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] (and others, sorry) prefers to play games that aren't strongly (or weakly) DM facing, but so what? Not everyone needs to like D&D. Not everyone needs to like Burning Wheel, either -- I'm sure [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] will <em>not </em>be by shortly to make claims that BW can be modified to be more DM facing because he's worried his game of choice won't measure up if it isn't.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7568641, member: 16814"] Sorry, I missed where the [I]game rules[/I] say players can create content in X, Y, and Z. According to what you said above, it was specifically the [I]DM giving the permission to the players[/I]. Unless the game gives that to the players, you're still at the [I]DM giving out power[/I], making that something the [I]DM can give away[/I], meaning it's still, ultimately, the [I]DM's power[/I]. I'm pretty sure that you'd argue that even with player content creation the DM retains veto power, right? Or are you saying the D&D has, as part of it's mechanics, the ability for the player to create content without the DM having veto power? Heck, that's not even true for spells, which is the only D&D mechanic where players actually have content control, if very narrow. You're waving your hands, Max. What game is this that cannot be easily altered so that the DM gives the players permission to add things? Surely, since you've made this definition up yourself, you had an example in mind? And, D&D is only easily altered like that via DM houserule -- note the "DM" part there. Your houserules are not a valid criteria for assessing how D&D is or is not a DM facing game. They cannot be, because your houserules are not what D&D is, they're just your houserules (and fine houserules, I'm sure). I'm really not understanding why you feel the need to say D&D isn't strongly DM facing. This isn't a bad thing, unless you're looking to play games that aren't strongly DM facing. D&D is still the single most popular RPG by far more than a country mile, so being strongly DM facing clearly isn't a detriment to having a good time playing. Sure, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] (and others, sorry) prefers to play games that aren't strongly (or weakly) DM facing, but so what? Not everyone needs to like D&D. Not everyone needs to like Burning Wheel, either -- I'm sure [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] will [I]not [/I]be by shortly to make claims that BW can be modified to be more DM facing because he's worried his game of choice won't measure up if it isn't. [/QUOTE]
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