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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7568686" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Here we come to an example of why even D&D evolved. From OD&D up through 1e AD&D the trend was simply more precise and encompassing rules dictating durations, mapping techniques, exploration rules, etc. When employed in a dungeon type setting this can answer the 'barn question' quite effectively. The dungeon is a totally mapped space with all topography, locations, and situations within it precisely defined. AD&D (and even OD&D to some extent) also attempted to address these sorts of questions in less thoroughly structured contexts, such as [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s example, but with limited success. </p><p></p><p>2e, which was IIRC largely the work of Zeb Cook, clearly was designed with this understanding in mind. It is first and foremost designed with the idea in mind from the very start that the action will be more generalized, more dramatic and fiction-like, and take place in a wide variety of locations to a greater degree. It drops some important elements of 1e's exploration rules for example. There are no movement rates for exploration in dungeons in 2e. You could extrapolate them from knowledge of 1e play, no rule is actually changed, but no rates are actually stated. If you started play with 2e, then the fundamental rule for deciding how long your spell lasts during exploration is non-existent. It is now up to the DM to decide what he thinks is appropriate!</p><p></p><p>I believe there are still overland movement rates in 2e, and many of the trappings of 1e exploration-based play still exist, but any close consideration of the necessities of dramatic play is, as Pemerton explained, pretty much going to lead to DM determinations of time as simply a way of explaining, post-hoc, what happened.</p><p></p><p>4e has a sort of vestigial set of relict mechanics of this ilk, but most of the DMG's advice pretty much is incoherent with using them. For example, overland movement rates don't do much work in a game where travel is likely either to be elided (go to the action, skip the boring part) or handled by an SC, which is a pretty abstract story-centered type of mechanic. I do note that 4e also has durations on rituals, and these are equally 'color' since there are (ala 2e) no exploration movement rates (or really coherent exploration rules at all). At best they suggest the realms of problem solving in which a given ritual might find use.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7568686, member: 82106"] Here we come to an example of why even D&D evolved. From OD&D up through 1e AD&D the trend was simply more precise and encompassing rules dictating durations, mapping techniques, exploration rules, etc. When employed in a dungeon type setting this can answer the 'barn question' quite effectively. The dungeon is a totally mapped space with all topography, locations, and situations within it precisely defined. AD&D (and even OD&D to some extent) also attempted to address these sorts of questions in less thoroughly structured contexts, such as [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s example, but with limited success. 2e, which was IIRC largely the work of Zeb Cook, clearly was designed with this understanding in mind. It is first and foremost designed with the idea in mind from the very start that the action will be more generalized, more dramatic and fiction-like, and take place in a wide variety of locations to a greater degree. It drops some important elements of 1e's exploration rules for example. There are no movement rates for exploration in dungeons in 2e. You could extrapolate them from knowledge of 1e play, no rule is actually changed, but no rates are actually stated. If you started play with 2e, then the fundamental rule for deciding how long your spell lasts during exploration is non-existent. It is now up to the DM to decide what he thinks is appropriate! I believe there are still overland movement rates in 2e, and many of the trappings of 1e exploration-based play still exist, but any close consideration of the necessities of dramatic play is, as Pemerton explained, pretty much going to lead to DM determinations of time as simply a way of explaining, post-hoc, what happened. 4e has a sort of vestigial set of relict mechanics of this ilk, but most of the DMG's advice pretty much is incoherent with using them. For example, overland movement rates don't do much work in a game where travel is likely either to be elided (go to the action, skip the boring part) or handled by an SC, which is a pretty abstract story-centered type of mechanic. I do note that 4e also has durations on rituals, and these are equally 'color' since there are (ala 2e) no exploration movement rates (or really coherent exploration rules at all). At best they suggest the realms of problem solving in which a given ritual might find use. [/QUOTE]
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