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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 7574255" data-attributes="member: 85555"><p>I think there is a lot here. First, I don't see this as a culture war. A culture war is a much broader conflict over major social and political issues. That isn't what is happening here. But this conversation is definitely an outgrowth of old flamewars over playstyle (I think that is pretty hard to dispute if you honestly examine the exchange of posts here). And I think my position on that has been clear: I don't want flamewars anymore. I am not interested in taking down other peoples' play styles. This whole I have not been attacking any of the playstyle suggestions Pemerton and others have made. I think engaging in that kind of playstyle war online, isn't helpful, and it hurts play at ones own table (because there is a tendency to build your playstyle and define against he style you are opposing...this is why I've said before you can end up with an inverse GNS theory if that is the thing you are arguing against the whole time---and I think you see that in some immersionist camps). I don't want any of that. I just want what works at my table, and I am not interested in gaming ideology whatsoever anymore (admittedly I used to be a lot more rigid in my views). My only point in this whole thread has been I felt by framing our style as Mother May I: 1) it is pretty dismissive and it is natural we will react with some amount of hostility, but more importantly 2) it clouds peoples ability to truly understand why we play the way we do. I get that they are using it as a thing they don't want in the game, which can be useful. But like dissociated mechanics, it becomes this bogeyman that starts to shape your style in ways you might not otherwise engage in. You can really end up throwing the baby out with the bath water if you are always on the look out for 'bad thing X'. And given how expansive the definition of Mother May I is here, and how it completely overlaps with our preferred style of play by that definition, I think its utility really needs to be called into question.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 7574255, member: 85555"] I think there is a lot here. First, I don't see this as a culture war. A culture war is a much broader conflict over major social and political issues. That isn't what is happening here. But this conversation is definitely an outgrowth of old flamewars over playstyle (I think that is pretty hard to dispute if you honestly examine the exchange of posts here). And I think my position on that has been clear: I don't want flamewars anymore. I am not interested in taking down other peoples' play styles. This whole I have not been attacking any of the playstyle suggestions Pemerton and others have made. I think engaging in that kind of playstyle war online, isn't helpful, and it hurts play at ones own table (because there is a tendency to build your playstyle and define against he style you are opposing...this is why I've said before you can end up with an inverse GNS theory if that is the thing you are arguing against the whole time---and I think you see that in some immersionist camps). I don't want any of that. I just want what works at my table, and I am not interested in gaming ideology whatsoever anymore (admittedly I used to be a lot more rigid in my views). My only point in this whole thread has been I felt by framing our style as Mother May I: 1) it is pretty dismissive and it is natural we will react with some amount of hostility, but more importantly 2) it clouds peoples ability to truly understand why we play the way we do. I get that they are using it as a thing they don't want in the game, which can be useful. But like dissociated mechanics, it becomes this bogeyman that starts to shape your style in ways you might not otherwise engage in. You can really end up throwing the baby out with the bath water if you are always on the look out for 'bad thing X'. And given how expansive the definition of Mother May I is here, and how it completely overlaps with our preferred style of play by that definition, I think its utility really needs to be called into question. [/QUOTE]
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