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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7575142" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>I don't believe the existence of GM decides is sufficient for MMI. Necessary, but not sufficient. For instance, 5e uses GM decides for it's core game loop, but it's not necessarily MMI if played in a principled manner. 5e's core loop removes approval of player action declarations from the GM, so no hard MMI, but if the GM uses the GM decides loop to force his approval, then you're back into MMI, again.</p><p></p><p>I don't see the existence of a degenerate play like MMI to be cause to not discuss how it occurs. I've also said, in posts you've quoted but snipped, that most tables don't engage in MMI. It's more like talking about railroading -- clearly a degenerate playstyle, but one that can be discussed without saying everyone does it. Noting which systems put GM approval at a foundational tier in the ruleset is valuable in knowing that you should approach using that system from a principled stance to minimize it's impact. I don't think older D&D editions intentionally placed MMI as a foundation, nor do I think most games played with those systems suffer from MMI, but that's in spite of the ruleset, not because of it.</p><p></p><p>GM decides is a method of play that isn't inherently MMI or not. It's just how some systems resolve actions in play, they rely on a GM to apply their best judgement to the evolving play and adjudicate fairly. When I run 5e, as I'm doing right now, I play this way, because that's how that system operates. I pay attention to my play, though, and strive to avoid reaching into MMI by gating player actions by my preferences. I think plenty of other GMs do this as well. Discussing the issue is not casting aspersions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7575142, member: 16814"] I don't believe the existence of GM decides is sufficient for MMI. Necessary, but not sufficient. For instance, 5e uses GM decides for it's core game loop, but it's not necessarily MMI if played in a principled manner. 5e's core loop removes approval of player action declarations from the GM, so no hard MMI, but if the GM uses the GM decides loop to force his approval, then you're back into MMI, again. I don't see the existence of a degenerate play like MMI to be cause to not discuss how it occurs. I've also said, in posts you've quoted but snipped, that most tables don't engage in MMI. It's more like talking about railroading -- clearly a degenerate playstyle, but one that can be discussed without saying everyone does it. Noting which systems put GM approval at a foundational tier in the ruleset is valuable in knowing that you should approach using that system from a principled stance to minimize it's impact. I don't think older D&D editions intentionally placed MMI as a foundation, nor do I think most games played with those systems suffer from MMI, but that's in spite of the ruleset, not because of it. GM decides is a method of play that isn't inherently MMI or not. It's just how some systems resolve actions in play, they rely on a GM to apply their best judgement to the evolving play and adjudicate fairly. When I run 5e, as I'm doing right now, I play this way, because that's how that system operates. I pay attention to my play, though, and strive to avoid reaching into MMI by gating player actions by my preferences. I think plenty of other GMs do this as well. Discussing the issue is not casting aspersions. [/QUOTE]
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