Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7576033" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>The risk? No. That it's a problem at all? Yes.</p><p></p><p>Not quite. Closer to the point here would be a situation where you go to drink some water and find it's tainted, or is in fact vodka or gin.</p><p></p><p>As would the PC; and <strong>this is perfectly fine</strong>. Same way I'd feel if I took a swig of water only to find I'd just downed a mouthful of Gilbey's Finest London Dry: I don't like gin, and so I'd be both surprised and disappointed...and probably a bit annoyed too.</p><p></p><p>What was my mistake? Not sniffing the "water" first...i.e. not fully enough exploring my surroundings before interacting with them.</p><p></p><p>Regardless, after the jump you're going to be somewhere you weren't before - a place which you either know through previous exploration or don't know and thus will probably want to explore - even if such exploration consists only of looking out the window (and-or checking the sensors) to see what's around you before jumping again to somewhere else.</p><p></p><p>Actively chasing someone usually falls under combat; surreptitiously following someone would be more in the exploration side. Buying something falls under social. That the game has specific mechanics for these things doesn't deny the pillars are present.</p><p></p><p>Come to think of it, I wonder if you can name anything a PC might do or try to do within the fiction of an RPG that doesn't fall under one or more of the four pillars including downtime?</p><p></p><p>4e does kinda take two pillars and shove 'em into one, but when looked at more closely each thing within the one can be broken out. Social interaction = social (obviously!); crossing a desert = exploration. Altering or dispelling a magical phenomenon = some situationally-dependent mix of combat and exploration if done under duress, and quite possibly downtime if done in the safety of town.</p><p></p><p>This is likely true almost universally, as far as it goes. But it's only half the picture...</p><p></p><p>So they never declare any action on the basis of "let's try this and see if it works"? No trial-and-error, intentional or otherwise?</p><p></p><p>The other half of the picture is, of course, hidden information that the PCs (and thus players) can't know until they discover it, sometimes the hard way. The no-teleport zone would be like this, as would be the gin-water. Or do you flat-out tell them if they ask (and even if they don't?) it's a no-fly zone even if the PCs have no way of knowing?</p><p></p><p>No, but it all fell under the exploration pillar in terms of learning about the setting and how things work there.</p><p></p><p>Those are still all exploration, regardless of the mechanics used. D&D Bards have a Legend Lore ability that sounds quite similar to the Spout Lore noted above; and well over 95% of the time when a Bard in my game succeeds with Legend Lore I'm immediately making stuff up on the fly (they chuck LL at some of the strangest things <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> ) so I can narrate the information obtained.</p><p></p><p>Information gathering of any kind is exploration. Occasionally combat might enter into it (see: torture), and far more often social enters into it (when you get the info from another person or entity in the fiction), but it's always exploration at the root.</p><p></p><p>And in these instances the player is simply trying to mirror the character, which is great.</p><p></p><p>You aren't always going to describe every last little feature of a scene and nor is anyone else. Players can (1) ask for more (or more specific) info, or they can (2) declare actions that'll get them the info. Either way, for better or worse they should end up learning more; and in many cases it'll take a bit of both (1) and (2) to fully suss out a scene or situation.</p><p></p><p>The difference with (2) here is that it might draw out information that simple observation (1) can't get - as in the no-fly zone or the gin-water. For example asking you to give a more detailed description of the items on the desk will get me that, and I can in theory drill down (within reason, of course) until I'm satisfied; but it'll still take the action declaration of "I cast Detect Magic" to pull that one of the four otherwise ordinary-looking dust-covered quills on the desk is enchanted.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7576033, member: 29398"] The risk? No. That it's a problem at all? Yes. Not quite. Closer to the point here would be a situation where you go to drink some water and find it's tainted, or is in fact vodka or gin. As would the PC; and [B]this is perfectly fine[/B]. Same way I'd feel if I took a swig of water only to find I'd just downed a mouthful of Gilbey's Finest London Dry: I don't like gin, and so I'd be both surprised and disappointed...and probably a bit annoyed too. What was my mistake? Not sniffing the "water" first...i.e. not fully enough exploring my surroundings before interacting with them. Regardless, after the jump you're going to be somewhere you weren't before - a place which you either know through previous exploration or don't know and thus will probably want to explore - even if such exploration consists only of looking out the window (and-or checking the sensors) to see what's around you before jumping again to somewhere else. Actively chasing someone usually falls under combat; surreptitiously following someone would be more in the exploration side. Buying something falls under social. That the game has specific mechanics for these things doesn't deny the pillars are present. Come to think of it, I wonder if you can name anything a PC might do or try to do within the fiction of an RPG that doesn't fall under one or more of the four pillars including downtime? 4e does kinda take two pillars and shove 'em into one, but when looked at more closely each thing within the one can be broken out. Social interaction = social (obviously!); crossing a desert = exploration. Altering or dispelling a magical phenomenon = some situationally-dependent mix of combat and exploration if done under duress, and quite possibly downtime if done in the safety of town. This is likely true almost universally, as far as it goes. But it's only half the picture... So they never declare any action on the basis of "let's try this and see if it works"? No trial-and-error, intentional or otherwise? The other half of the picture is, of course, hidden information that the PCs (and thus players) can't know until they discover it, sometimes the hard way. The no-teleport zone would be like this, as would be the gin-water. Or do you flat-out tell them if they ask (and even if they don't?) it's a no-fly zone even if the PCs have no way of knowing? No, but it all fell under the exploration pillar in terms of learning about the setting and how things work there. Those are still all exploration, regardless of the mechanics used. D&D Bards have a Legend Lore ability that sounds quite similar to the Spout Lore noted above; and well over 95% of the time when a Bard in my game succeeds with Legend Lore I'm immediately making stuff up on the fly (they chuck LL at some of the strangest things :) ) so I can narrate the information obtained. Information gathering of any kind is exploration. Occasionally combat might enter into it (see: torture), and far more often social enters into it (when you get the info from another person or entity in the fiction), but it's always exploration at the root. And in these instances the player is simply trying to mirror the character, which is great. You aren't always going to describe every last little feature of a scene and nor is anyone else. Players can (1) ask for more (or more specific) info, or they can (2) declare actions that'll get them the info. Either way, for better or worse they should end up learning more; and in many cases it'll take a bit of both (1) and (2) to fully suss out a scene or situation. The difference with (2) here is that it might draw out information that simple observation (1) can't get - as in the no-fly zone or the gin-water. For example asking you to give a more detailed description of the items on the desk will get me that, and I can in theory drill down (within reason, of course) until I'm satisfied; but it'll still take the action declaration of "I cast Detect Magic" to pull that one of the four otherwise ordinary-looking dust-covered quills on the desk is enchanted. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
Top