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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7578402" data-attributes="member: 29398">Yes, which means they're metagaming.&nbsp; I'm just trying to point out that in some cases - of which this is clearly one - a DM can take some simple steps to help line character knowledge up with player knowledge...&nbsp;...such as this; which is even more efficient than what I'd suggested.Yet when a DM changes things up e.g. with red dragons that breathe gas or trolls that can only be perma-damaged by cold, players cry foul.How it works is really quite simple: as a player you have to put yourself strictly in the mind of your PC and think as your PC would think while using only the knowledge that your PC has, and as far as possible forget what you yourself know as a real-world player.&nbsp; Sometimes it's easy to do this, other times not - personally I find it's easier if the character I'm playing has a personality more similar to my own, and more difficult if my character's personality is very different than my own.And yes, when done right it can on occasion mean playing your PC straight into its grave in full awareness that you-as-player have knowledge that could have saved it.As you're pretty good about using player when you mean player as opposed to character, then I'll come back with this: it's on the GM to force the check if she feels player knowledge is being used in place of character knowledge to avoid making a check.But if the character already knows then of course there's no check.Other than the overall suggestion to players that they think like thier characters - but now I can't remember whether I saw this in the 4e or 5e PH, I glanced though both last night and saw it in one of 'em.If it comes to that and there's no out-clauses or escape hatches, then yes.And I'd consider this excellent play.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7578402, member: 29398"] Yes, which means they're metagaming. I'm just trying to point out that in some cases - of which this is clearly one - a DM can take some simple steps to help line character knowledge up with player knowledge... ...such as this; which is even more efficient than what I'd suggested. Yet when a DM changes things up e.g. with red dragons that breathe gas or trolls that can only be perma-damaged by cold, players cry foul. How it works is really quite simple: as a player you have to put yourself strictly in the mind of your PC and think as your PC would think while using only the knowledge that your PC has, and as far as possible forget what you yourself know as a real-world player. Sometimes it's easy to do this, other times not - personally I find it's easier if the character I'm playing has a personality more similar to my own, and more difficult if my character's personality is very different than my own. And yes, when done right it can on occasion mean playing your PC straight into its grave in full awareness that you-as-player have knowledge that could have saved it. As you're pretty good about using player when you mean player as opposed to character, then I'll come back with this: it's on the GM to force the check if she feels player knowledge is being used in place of character knowledge to avoid making a check. But if the [I]character[/I] already knows then of course there's no check. Other than the overall suggestion to players that they think like thier characters - but now I can't remember whether I saw this in the 4e or 5e PH, I glanced though both last night and saw it in one of 'em. If it comes to that and there's no out-clauses or escape hatches, then yes. And I'd consider this excellent play. [/QUOTE]

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