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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7579502" data-attributes="member: 42582">I would push this further, at least in the troll case.How does it count as a win to be allowed to use fire vs a troll if you already know that that's how one beats trolls? In his/her first ever troll encounter, a player wins by figuring out to use fire. It's impossible to replicate that win (short of a bout of amnesia or similar). Future encounters with trolls don't provide any opportunity for such a win. It's just a particular instance of the general point that's puzzles, riddles etc are one-off things (again, subject to forgetfulness).This relates back to p 11 of the 4e DMG, about the GM possibly providing knowledge on the basis of the background that a player has established for his/her PC. I think it is taken for granted that if the player doesn't want it, the GM shouldn't do it - it is intended as a way of making the background "useful or important" (p 11), not a burden.Of course, using failure results to do such things might be a different kettle of fish, depending how open the table is to that sort of thing. (4e doesn't encourage this in the way that - say - Burning Wheel does, but it doesn't preclude it either.)In the context of 4e I don't think much adjustment is required. 4e isn't really a "procedural" game in the way that (say) Moldvay Basic and other versions of classic D&D are.The obvious "worry" is that players use this sort of thing to establish fictional grouinding for any old action declaration that they like, so that the GM's framing ceases to be relevant or constraining. And the "solution" to that worry is to take the players' fiction seriously, and use it to hang complications on - especially when declared checks fail.And a final comment about 4e methods:With respect, that does not seem very imaginative. Why could a successful check not notice the tell-tale sign on this particular creature that it is vulnerable to such-and-such?This is not new RPG tech. 4e does not preclude the use of Monster Knowledge checks against unique creatures. And Burning Wheel handles the Folklore skill, used to learn wards against the living dead, in something like this way also.</blockquote>

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