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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7580471" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>I'm not sure I 100% follow you here so if I get this wrong please correct me, but the bit I bolded carries another aspect as well which is I think at (or very close to) the core of much of this discussion: that this advocacy for one's PC extends to trying to gain whatever in-game advantage you can for it.</p><p></p><p>In the examples at hand, this includes:</p><p></p><p>- advocating for use of player knowledge in situations where it is better than character knowledge (e.g. trolls v fire)</p><p>- arbitrarily giving your PC a background that carries a built-in advantage in the fiction (e.g. nobility grants wealth, prestige, and authority)</p><p>- basing one's play around the meta-rewards rather than what makes sense in the fiction (e.g. taking on needless combats just to gain xp)</p><p></p><p>However. Just as it is the player's duty to try to advocate for any advantage they can for their PC (which taken to its extreme can include outright cheating), I see it as the DM's duty to push back hard against this advocacy when it goes too far.</p><p></p><p>The question then becomes what is "too far"? The first two advocacy examples (player knowledge and background) above are in my view too far, and a DM is well within her rights to shut this down when she sees it. The third one is fuzzier; if there's a halfway-reasonable in-fiction reason to do it then fine, but if it makes no sense at all then something's gone adrift.</p><p></p><p>More or less. One thing to note, however, is that to discover something as a player - particularly about the setting - it perforce needs to be something previously unknown; which means if the players are also involved in setting creation this discovery aspect is going to be greatly lessened.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7580471, member: 29398"] I'm not sure I 100% follow you here so if I get this wrong please correct me, but the bit I bolded carries another aspect as well which is I think at (or very close to) the core of much of this discussion: that this advocacy for one's PC extends to trying to gain whatever in-game advantage you can for it. In the examples at hand, this includes: - advocating for use of player knowledge in situations where it is better than character knowledge (e.g. trolls v fire) - arbitrarily giving your PC a background that carries a built-in advantage in the fiction (e.g. nobility grants wealth, prestige, and authority) - basing one's play around the meta-rewards rather than what makes sense in the fiction (e.g. taking on needless combats just to gain xp) However. Just as it is the player's duty to try to advocate for any advantage they can for their PC (which taken to its extreme can include outright cheating), I see it as the DM's duty to push back hard against this advocacy when it goes too far. The question then becomes what is "too far"? The first two advocacy examples (player knowledge and background) above are in my view too far, and a DM is well within her rights to shut this down when she sees it. The third one is fuzzier; if there's a halfway-reasonable in-fiction reason to do it then fine, but if it makes no sense at all then something's gone adrift. More or less. One thing to note, however, is that to discover something as a player - particularly about the setting - it perforce needs to be something previously unknown; which means if the players are also involved in setting creation this discovery aspect is going to be greatly lessened. [/QUOTE]
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