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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7580702" data-attributes="member: 29398">Any and all of which would have been really nice to know before the character started play in order that I and-or the player could have incorporated this aspect of the character into play.For example if the PC has been banished I'd like to know from where, and why, and then determine if anyone happens to recognize him during his travels.  Character's gained the advantage of never being recognized or challenged or whatever if none of us (incuding the player) know he's a noble until the player decides so one day.Don't get me wrong - I've had noble PCs in my game over the years (two queens, two crown princes, and a duke or three to start with) - and I've no problem with it provided that either a) the noble background/profession came up as a part of char-gen and thus has been known (at least to that player and the DM) all along, or b) the title was acquired as a part of the run-of-play fiction via marriage or quest or bequeathal or reward or whatever...or by drawing the right/wrong card from a Deck! (nearly every PC I've seen gain a title from a Deck has soon had to retire from adventuring in order to deal with all that being a noble entails)What I have a problem with is that the player can on a whim declare a PC to be a noble during the run of play at just the right moment where it would be most advantageous to do so.Of the various nobles I've had in my game:- one crown prince had a small entourage adventuring with him as bodyguards; they died, the prince survived (just!) but was forced into retirement by his family after a few adventures because of the dangers involved- one crown prince had no entourage, survived his adventuring career but then had to come to the defense of his realm which was being invaded; the entire royal family was wiped out, along with the country, by the invaders- one queen had no entourage, wasn't very well-liked by her people due to her constant absence while adventuring, ended up marrying another PC (and making him King, more or less); after this they juggled adventuring and ruling reasonably well until the game (and world!) ended- one queen came by her title through the run of play (via AD&D modules C4 and C5) and on acquiring the throne pretty much had to immediately retire to deal with all the headaches; she would have considered an entourage an insult to her own not-inconsiderable ability as a warriorI also played a crown prince as my very first character.  He was from a very foreign land (different world, in fact) to where we were adventuring, but he still acted as if his word was the law because that's how he had been bred and raised and how dare these peasants tell him what to do!  He didn't last long; and deservedly died at the hands of his own party.That these systems build such things right into their mechanics indicates a baked-in expectation that the nobility-to-commoner ratio among PCs is going to be much higher than among the overall population.  Fair enough, if unrealistic.Can Cavaliers as written even have followers, other than a squire, before reaching high-ish level? (long time since I looked at RAW Cavaliers!)  Either way, all these examples have the noble status being determined during char-gen; and that's A-OK.It doesn't break the game at all if it's a known thing all along, but if the nobility only comes to light partway through the campaign it very much risks rendering invalid some or even all of the play that has gone before, under the heading "What would or should have happened differently in the fiction had this aspect of this PC been known to the player and-or DM right from square one?".</blockquote>

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