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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7595485" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Well, it does disprove that <em>any</em> addition of real-world elements into the fiction will increase the realism.</p><p></p><p>But the actual point of my example isn't to disprove your claim: it's to show that your claim is underdeveloped, and indeed so underdeveloped as to not be up for evaluation, or even really understanding, by others. Until you explain <em>what you mean</em> by "adding in" real world elements, only you know what you are thinking of.</p><p></p><p>I mean, [MENTION=82106]AbdulAlhazred[/MENTION] and I already gave the example of a D&D GM narrating a miss as due to a dulled blade, which is perfectly possible under the existing D&D rules. And I gaven the parallel Traveller example of explaining a PC's stats as the result of a heart condition. But by "adding in" you seem to have in mind the introduction of some sort of mechanical subsystem (like the AD&D system for disease); which then invites points of the sort that the two of us have made, such as that such systems don't increase realism if they yield unrealistic results in the fiction.</p><p></p><p>Until you try and explain what you mean by "adding in" real world elements, and why some forms of "adding in" count differently from others, you're not going to get much traction for your assertion. And you're certainly not going to persuade me that my campaigns are "less realistic" than yours or [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION]'s, given that you're both running D&D variants whereas I'm running systems (Burning Wheel, Classic Traveller, heck even Prince Valiant in some respects) that are far more gritty than D&D is capable of being given it's core mechanics of class, level and hit points. And even the non-gritty systems I'm running (Prince Valiant in some of its respects; 4e D&D; Cortex+ Heroic) establish a fiction at least as verisimilitudinous and rich in descriptive details (including dropped weapons, various sorts of injuries, locations and the people who inhabit them) as anything either of you has pointed to in your own games.</p><p></p><p>Hang on - are you telling me that <em>before you say anything as GM</em> you check it against a written record of <em>every bit of fiction ever produced in your campaign</em>? Or do you rely on memory when doing your prep and when making decisions in the course of play (such as whether or not any sect members are in the teahouse)?</p><p></p><p>At my tabel we rely primarily on memory but secondarily on notes. (I suspect that this is what [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] and you also rely on.)</p><p></p><p>I believe that much of what you and Lanefan call <em>inconsistency</em> is really <em>ambiguity</em> or <em>uncertainty</em>. For instance, in my 4e campaign there is uncertainty about how old the world is; and about the precise sequence in which certain events occurred before, during and in the immediate aftermath of the Dawn War. But given that only one PC (the deva invoker/wizard, who having become a Sage of Ages has access to all the memories of his previous incarnations) has the possibility of access to such knowledge, and he hasn't attempted to ascertain and document it all, the uncertainty makes sense. And gives the campaign a trueness to life that encyclopedia-style campaign timelines undermine!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7595485, member: 42582"] Well, it does disprove that [I]any[/I] addition of real-world elements into the fiction will increase the realism. But the actual point of my example isn't to disprove your claim: it's to show that your claim is underdeveloped, and indeed so underdeveloped as to not be up for evaluation, or even really understanding, by others. Until you explain [I]what you mean[/I] by "adding in" real world elements, only you know what you are thinking of. I mean, [MENTION=82106]AbdulAlhazred[/MENTION] and I already gave the example of a D&D GM narrating a miss as due to a dulled blade, which is perfectly possible under the existing D&D rules. And I gaven the parallel Traveller example of explaining a PC's stats as the result of a heart condition. But by "adding in" you seem to have in mind the introduction of some sort of mechanical subsystem (like the AD&D system for disease); which then invites points of the sort that the two of us have made, such as that such systems don't increase realism if they yield unrealistic results in the fiction. Until you try and explain what you mean by "adding in" real world elements, and why some forms of "adding in" count differently from others, you're not going to get much traction for your assertion. And you're certainly not going to persuade me that my campaigns are "less realistic" than yours or [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION]'s, given that you're both running D&D variants whereas I'm running systems (Burning Wheel, Classic Traveller, heck even Prince Valiant in some respects) that are far more gritty than D&D is capable of being given it's core mechanics of class, level and hit points. And even the non-gritty systems I'm running (Prince Valiant in some of its respects; 4e D&D; Cortex+ Heroic) establish a fiction at least as verisimilitudinous and rich in descriptive details (including dropped weapons, various sorts of injuries, locations and the people who inhabit them) as anything either of you has pointed to in your own games. Hang on - are you telling me that [I]before you say anything as GM[/i] you check it against a written record of [I]every bit of fiction ever produced in your campaign[/I]? Or do you rely on memory when doing your prep and when making decisions in the course of play (such as whether or not any sect members are in the teahouse)? At my tabel we rely primarily on memory but secondarily on notes. (I suspect that this is what [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] and you also rely on.) I believe that much of what you and Lanefan call [I]inconsistency[/I] is really [I]ambiguity[/I] or [I]uncertainty[/I]. For instance, in my 4e campaign there is uncertainty about how old the world is; and about the precise sequence in which certain events occurred before, during and in the immediate aftermath of the Dawn War. But given that only one PC (the deva invoker/wizard, who having become a Sage of Ages has access to all the memories of his previous incarnations) has the possibility of access to such knowledge, and he hasn't attempted to ascertain and document it all, the uncertainty makes sense. And gives the campaign a trueness to life that encyclopedia-style campaign timelines undermine! [/QUOTE]
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