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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7598280" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>OK, that helps.</p><p></p><p>One thing leaps to mind: if gear slots are that restricted it'd be hard to mechanically justify carrying items purely for flavour reasons only e.g. a prissy Elf that always has a complete personal-grooming kit on hand, along with his convention adventuring gear.</p><p></p><p>In a more D&D-like system using encumbrance and item weights, a character is free (or freer, anyway) to carry some non-essential lightweight gear and not be quite as deficient at dungeoneering or survival.</p><p></p><p>In general, no. In specific, however, there is (to me) a big difference in perception of realism/authenticity between having three open-ended slots which anything of any weight can end up in depending on what the character needs as she goes along, and having what amounts to a pre-determined weight allowance that can be made up of any combination and-or number of pieces of gear the character (pre-)selects.</p><p></p><p>Well true, we're all going to die sometime. But unless you're getting close to that point it might as well be infinite - so if something takes three sessions to play through instead of one, so what? As long as everyone is engaged, where's the harm?</p><p></p><p>Perhaps; but in an RPG we're not the audience, we're the characters. Bit of a difference. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Unless encumbrance rules are strictly enforced, I agree this can become a problem. Even bags of holding have limits.</p><p></p><p>And I can see how that would happen, certainly from an at-the-table point of view where the players have to sometimes agonize over these decisions. And from that aspect alone, it sounds great.</p><p></p><p>I guess my point is that a system like that seems to take those choices too far out of character - I'd rather see the players role-play their characters agonizing over these same decisions, maybe without as much information as they'd otherwise have.</p><p></p><p>For example, using the score again: </p><p></p><p>D&D - the character's done her research and realized she'll very likely need climbing gear, a crowbar, a towel or small blanket to muffle sounds, a bag to put the loot in, and some high-quality lockpicks - and so that (along with a small but nasty weapon and the blacked-out clothes she's wearing) is what she takes; intentionally leaving herself gobs of encumbrance headroom for all the loot she's about to steal! She gets in successfully (and in the process uses all the gear she brought other than her weapon; it turns out her research and casing were spot-on) and grabs the loot.</p><p></p><p>BitD - the character's done her research and realized there's a score to be had here, so she sets off. Being a cautious sort she decides weight be damned, I'm going 7 slots wide on this one. During the process she finds obstacles that require her to use climbing gear (slot 1), a crowbar to pry some bars loose over a window (2), a towel to muffle the sounds of the crowbar (3), her lockpicks (4), and a bag for the loot (5). She now has the loot in the bag (and thus the loot becomes part of slot 5; her weapon was in slot 6 all along).</p><p></p><p>Then just as she's making good her escape she meets a guard dog she had no previous knowledge of at all; the character looks for any sort of out-clause and (via whatever means) the GM ends up narrating that the dog looks hungry. The D&D character is likely hosed at this point as, having no idea there was a dog anywhere involved, she didn't think to bring any meat; while the BitD character, having one slot left, can simply put some meat in that slot (7), throw it to the dog, and escape.</p><p></p><p>This is the sort of thing that would bug me; that the BitD character just happens to have exactly what it needs when an unforseen or unexpected situation arises.</p><p></p><p>Obviously, had the BitD character foregone the weapon and only gone 5 slots wide the outcome would have been the same as in the D&D example, as she'd be out of slots by the time the dog showed up.</p><p></p><p>I hope you see what I'm getting at here. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7598280, member: 29398"] OK, that helps. One thing leaps to mind: if gear slots are that restricted it'd be hard to mechanically justify carrying items purely for flavour reasons only e.g. a prissy Elf that always has a complete personal-grooming kit on hand, along with his convention adventuring gear. In a more D&D-like system using encumbrance and item weights, a character is free (or freer, anyway) to carry some non-essential lightweight gear and not be quite as deficient at dungeoneering or survival. In general, no. In specific, however, there is (to me) a big difference in perception of realism/authenticity between having three open-ended slots which anything of any weight can end up in depending on what the character needs as she goes along, and having what amounts to a pre-determined weight allowance that can be made up of any combination and-or number of pieces of gear the character (pre-)selects. Well true, we're all going to die sometime. But unless you're getting close to that point it might as well be infinite - so if something takes three sessions to play through instead of one, so what? As long as everyone is engaged, where's the harm? Perhaps; but in an RPG we're not the audience, we're the characters. Bit of a difference. :) Unless encumbrance rules are strictly enforced, I agree this can become a problem. Even bags of holding have limits. And I can see how that would happen, certainly from an at-the-table point of view where the players have to sometimes agonize over these decisions. And from that aspect alone, it sounds great. I guess my point is that a system like that seems to take those choices too far out of character - I'd rather see the players role-play their characters agonizing over these same decisions, maybe without as much information as they'd otherwise have. For example, using the score again: D&D - the character's done her research and realized she'll very likely need climbing gear, a crowbar, a towel or small blanket to muffle sounds, a bag to put the loot in, and some high-quality lockpicks - and so that (along with a small but nasty weapon and the blacked-out clothes she's wearing) is what she takes; intentionally leaving herself gobs of encumbrance headroom for all the loot she's about to steal! She gets in successfully (and in the process uses all the gear she brought other than her weapon; it turns out her research and casing were spot-on) and grabs the loot. BitD - the character's done her research and realized there's a score to be had here, so she sets off. Being a cautious sort she decides weight be damned, I'm going 7 slots wide on this one. During the process she finds obstacles that require her to use climbing gear (slot 1), a crowbar to pry some bars loose over a window (2), a towel to muffle the sounds of the crowbar (3), her lockpicks (4), and a bag for the loot (5). She now has the loot in the bag (and thus the loot becomes part of slot 5; her weapon was in slot 6 all along). Then just as she's making good her escape she meets a guard dog she had no previous knowledge of at all; the character looks for any sort of out-clause and (via whatever means) the GM ends up narrating that the dog looks hungry. The D&D character is likely hosed at this point as, having no idea there was a dog anywhere involved, she didn't think to bring any meat; while the BitD character, having one slot left, can simply put some meat in that slot (7), throw it to the dog, and escape. This is the sort of thing that would bug me; that the BitD character just happens to have exactly what it needs when an unforseen or unexpected situation arises. Obviously, had the BitD character foregone the weapon and only gone 5 slots wide the outcome would have been the same as in the D&D example, as she'd be out of slots by the time the dog showed up. I hope you see what I'm getting at here. :) [/QUOTE]
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