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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7598814" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I've quoted Aldarc here in the context of Sadras's response to [MENTION=6972053]Numidius[/MENTION] because it seems highly apt in that context even though that wasn't quite the context Aldarc was responding to.</p><p></p><p>I took Numidius to be referring to the standard approach for equipping a new PC in D&D, which is (i) to roll (or, in more recent editions, otherwise establish) starting money, then (ii) choose equipment from a list which has various items (with a particular focus on combat gear, and then travelling gear, and less focus on (say) household furnishings or cute trinkets) and prices next to them, with (iii) this often being done more-or-less independently by each player, or - if there is collaboration - the collaboration being purely in terms of ensuring not too many iron spikes and ensuring enough oil and lanterns.</p><p></p><p>And the poiint that I took to be the main one is that this process doesn't bear any close resemblance to what is happening in the fiction, which is that (i) this character lives in a quasi-mediaeval economy where a lot of trade is barter- rather than coin-based, and (ii) this character has a backstory, family history, geographic and social context, etc which will establish what equipment it is plausible that s/he does or doesn't have accesss to, and (iii) that same personal background has more too it than simply this current at-the-table context of preparing to go on the first adventure of the campaign.</p><p></p><p>And my own reason for brining [MENTION=5142]Aldarc[/MENTION]'s reference to cultural norms and expectations associated with the game is because these are really what is driving the player's equipment choice in most cases. The player is not getting into character and asking "What sort of stuff would <em>this</em> person own?" The player is getting ready to run his/her PC through an adventure and is asking "Given the norms of D&D adventures, which include pits and corridors and doors and so on, but tend not to include much need to entertain upper middle class gentlemen in my apartments, what sort of stuff do I want on my inventory?"</p><p></p><p>The notion that this becomes <em>realistic</em> or <em>more realistic</em> simply because of the time sequence at the table - establish a player-side resource list in advance of the need for the equipment in the fiction, rather than (as in BitD) choosing whether or not to expend a player-side resource pool in response to the demands of the fiction - is not something that I find plausible, or even really very meaningful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>These claims are completely unsubstantiated.</p><p></p><p>In a typical BitD session, what is the ratio of <em>decision situations that make gear salient</em> to <em>number of gear slots available</em>? I don't know the answer to this question, because I've neither read the rules for the game nor played it. Given the question that you ask, I'm pretty sure you don't know the answer either. So you have no idea how often in (say) [MENTION=6785785]hawkeyefan[/MENTION]'s game the players choose to forgo choices to establish gear because they're saving slots for later. Which is to say, you don't know what the frequency is of occasions when these characters don't have exactly what they need.</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, you haven't proferred any such frequecy of occasions as being "realistic" for experienced criminals in the real world. So whatever the "realistic" frequency may be, which itself seems to me pretty much just conjecture or taste, you don't know whether or not anyone's BitD gameplay has the same frequency, a greater one or a lesser one!</p><p></p><p>Also, as your question shows, you have no idea what the rules are for use of gear, re-use of gear, expenditure of gear, etc. So you have no idea how often BitD players make creative choices involving already-established gear rather than expend unspent slots on establishing new gear. So your claim about how often creative thinking might take place is also completely unsubstantiated.</p><p></p><p>A system that I am experienced with, and which handles inventory not as a resource established in advance but as something to be established in play by expending player-sided resources, is MHRP/Cortex+ Heroic. In that system it's simply not true that players always have what they want, because for various reasons (ranging from prospects of success on a required roll, to availability of plot points, to desires about how to spend their turns) players don't always try to establish inventory that in principle they might be able to. And I see creative uses of inventory quite often - for instance, a player established a riding horse as part of his PC's inventory because he had the opportunity to do so and thought it might come in handy for riding and fighting, and then found himself using the horse to help in a social interaction with a giant chieftain by offering it up as a gift of food.</p><p></p><p>I don't know whether or not BitD produces moments like that because, as I've said, I don't know the details of the system and how it interacts with the broader dynamics of the play of the game. But nor do you! Yet you make all these confident assertions as if you're an expert.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7598814, member: 42582"] I've quoted Aldarc here in the context of Sadras's response to [MENTION=6972053]Numidius[/MENTION] because it seems highly apt in that context even though that wasn't quite the context Aldarc was responding to. I took Numidius to be referring to the standard approach for equipping a new PC in D&D, which is (i) to roll (or, in more recent editions, otherwise establish) starting money, then (ii) choose equipment from a list which has various items (with a particular focus on combat gear, and then travelling gear, and less focus on (say) household furnishings or cute trinkets) and prices next to them, with (iii) this often being done more-or-less independently by each player, or - if there is collaboration - the collaboration being purely in terms of ensuring not too many iron spikes and ensuring enough oil and lanterns. And the poiint that I took to be the main one is that this process doesn't bear any close resemblance to what is happening in the fiction, which is that (i) this character lives in a quasi-mediaeval economy where a lot of trade is barter- rather than coin-based, and (ii) this character has a backstory, family history, geographic and social context, etc which will establish what equipment it is plausible that s/he does or doesn't have accesss to, and (iii) that same personal background has more too it than simply this current at-the-table context of preparing to go on the first adventure of the campaign. And my own reason for brining [MENTION=5142]Aldarc[/MENTION]'s reference to cultural norms and expectations associated with the game is because these are really what is driving the player's equipment choice in most cases. The player is not getting into character and asking "What sort of stuff would [I]this[/I] person own?" The player is getting ready to run his/her PC through an adventure and is asking "Given the norms of D&D adventures, which include pits and corridors and doors and so on, but tend not to include much need to entertain upper middle class gentlemen in my apartments, what sort of stuff do I want on my inventory?" The notion that this becomes [I]realistic[/I] or [I]more realistic[/I] simply because of the time sequence at the table - establish a player-side resource list in advance of the need for the equipment in the fiction, rather than (as in BitD) choosing whether or not to expend a player-side resource pool in response to the demands of the fiction - is not something that I find plausible, or even really very meaningful. These claims are completely unsubstantiated. In a typical BitD session, what is the ratio of [i]decision situations that make gear salient[/i] to [i]number of gear slots available[/i]? I don't know the answer to this question, because I've neither read the rules for the game nor played it. Given the question that you ask, I'm pretty sure you don't know the answer either. So you have no idea how often in (say) [MENTION=6785785]hawkeyefan[/MENTION]'s game the players choose to forgo choices to establish gear because they're saving slots for later. Which is to say, you don't know what the frequency is of occasions when these characters don't have exactly what they need. Furthermore, you haven't proferred any such frequecy of occasions as being "realistic" for experienced criminals in the real world. So whatever the "realistic" frequency may be, which itself seems to me pretty much just conjecture or taste, you don't know whether or not anyone's BitD gameplay has the same frequency, a greater one or a lesser one! Also, as your question shows, you have no idea what the rules are for use of gear, re-use of gear, expenditure of gear, etc. So you have no idea how often BitD players make creative choices involving already-established gear rather than expend unspent slots on establishing new gear. So your claim about how often creative thinking might take place is also completely unsubstantiated. A system that I am experienced with, and which handles inventory not as a resource established in advance but as something to be established in play by expending player-sided resources, is MHRP/Cortex+ Heroic. In that system it's simply not true that players always have what they want, because for various reasons (ranging from prospects of success on a required roll, to availability of plot points, to desires about how to spend their turns) players don't always try to establish inventory that in principle they might be able to. And I see creative uses of inventory quite often - for instance, a player established a riding horse as part of his PC's inventory because he had the opportunity to do so and thought it might come in handy for riding and fighting, and then found himself using the horse to help in a social interaction with a giant chieftain by offering it up as a gift of food. I don't know whether or not BitD produces moments like that because, as I've said, I don't know the details of the system and how it interacts with the broader dynamics of the play of the game. But nor do you! Yet you make all these confident assertions as if you're an expert. [/QUOTE]
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