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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
A good Armor Class Bonus to Damage Reduction house rule?
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<blockquote data-quote="ValhallaGH" data-source="post: 5300517" data-attributes="member: 41187"><p>Huh!?</p><p>1) Rogues aren't weak. Just because they aren't the "I win" of wizards or CoDzilla, doesn't make them weak. Sneak attack, alone, allows them to get through DR as (or more) reliably than most Fighter builds.</p><p>2) Monks really aren't affected much. They are still pure AC and rather squishy when they get hit. Their only loss is that they have an even harder time hurting stuff, since their damage won't get through as often (before around level 10). They'll hit a heck of a lot more often, since Defense is much lower, but they should be about as effective as they were before.</p><p>3) DR is weaker than AC. Not getting hit ignores infinite damage. DR only reduces by X per hit. The only nice thing about DR is when you can use it to supplement a ludicrous AC. At low levels (less than 5) PC AC is low enough that having DR instead increases character longevity; once you get into the medium levels, damage potential outstrips available DR sources, and PCs will only be auto-missed, so damage taken will go up a lot.</p><p>4) The only time DR is good is when you're up against piddly amounts of damage (average 6 or less), where you get to ignore it no matter what. Attacks that miss AC do zero damage. DR that completely reduces the attack to zero do zero damage. So, the only way DR is as good as AC is when it reduces the damage to zero.</p><p></p><p>A) Damage Reduction only applies to physical damage. It does not apply to energy damage. Fire is a type of energy, so it ignores Damage Reduction. This is a core rule and this house rule merely repeats it, it doesn't change it.</p><p>B) It doesn't apply to falling damage because the House Rule says it doesn't. Which makes a great deal of sense, since strapping 50 lbs of steel plates onto your body doesn't make a fall hurt <em>less</em>. (In real life, it would make the fall hurt <em>more</em>, which doesn't matter for game rules but does matter for player immersion.)</p><p></p><p>Huh? No, the guy that gets missed more is the clear winner.</p><p>Consider a Dragon with a +20 bite attack (2d6+4) and Power Attack (16 or less). He attacks the shirt, and needs a 14. He attacks the Plate and needs a 10. So, PA for 16, dealing 2d6+20 with a +4 attack. He needs a 6+ to hit plate (75% hit chance) and will deal ~27 damage (19 after DR); average 14.65 damage per round (including critical threats). He needs a 10+ to hit shirt (55% chance) and will deal ~27 damage (23 after DR); average 12.85 damage per round (including critical threats).</p><p>Chain Shirt lives longer, assuming same HP. Yes, this ignores the claws, wings, and tail, but those follow the same pattern, leaving shirt the leading survivor. The only way plate can beat shirt is if he can get his DR up to 11 (75%, ~16 after DR; average 12.55 per round) without changing shirt at all.</p><p>Even an can't-miss Power Attack (12, 2d6+16 for plate; 8, 2d6+12 for shirt) will work out for shirt. Plate gets hit 95%, average 14.65 per round. Shirt gets hit 95%, average 14.45 per round. It's a lot closer, but that miss chance still favors Shirt.</p><p>Shifting the Power Attack for optimal attack bonus against both (85% hit chance, 4+ to hit) comes out to plate: 14.85 per round, shirt: 14.65 per round. Shirt keeps winning, because that difference in Defense means that fewer blows land, and less pain is taken.</p><p>That the numbers are so close actually says great things about Plane Sailing's balance skills. This is one of the more effective variants I've seen.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The real failure of this rule set is that it invalidates every martial build that is not a sneak attack / TH-power attack build. Any PC relying upon regular damage will fail to hurt the big monsters (Bard, +5 longsword, 18 STR [including magic], will deal 1d8+9 for an average ~13, and is ignored by natural armor 17+), reducing their ability to participate. Bards, non-TH Fighters, Monks, non-PA Paladins, and Rangers all get weaker under this house rule. The only ways to overcome natural armor are Sneak Attack, Power Attack, and Critical Threats; Drizz't <strong>has</strong> to be a crit monkey, because there is no other way for him to hurt an umber hulk.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ValhallaGH, post: 5300517, member: 41187"] Huh!? 1) Rogues aren't weak. Just because they aren't the "I win" of wizards or CoDzilla, doesn't make them weak. Sneak attack, alone, allows them to get through DR as (or more) reliably than most Fighter builds. 2) Monks really aren't affected much. They are still pure AC and rather squishy when they get hit. Their only loss is that they have an even harder time hurting stuff, since their damage won't get through as often (before around level 10). They'll hit a heck of a lot more often, since Defense is much lower, but they should be about as effective as they were before. 3) DR is weaker than AC. Not getting hit ignores infinite damage. DR only reduces by X per hit. The only nice thing about DR is when you can use it to supplement a ludicrous AC. At low levels (less than 5) PC AC is low enough that having DR instead increases character longevity; once you get into the medium levels, damage potential outstrips available DR sources, and PCs will only be auto-missed, so damage taken will go up a lot. 4) The only time DR is good is when you're up against piddly amounts of damage (average 6 or less), where you get to ignore it no matter what. Attacks that miss AC do zero damage. DR that completely reduces the attack to zero do zero damage. So, the only way DR is as good as AC is when it reduces the damage to zero. A) Damage Reduction only applies to physical damage. It does not apply to energy damage. Fire is a type of energy, so it ignores Damage Reduction. This is a core rule and this house rule merely repeats it, it doesn't change it. B) It doesn't apply to falling damage because the House Rule says it doesn't. Which makes a great deal of sense, since strapping 50 lbs of steel plates onto your body doesn't make a fall hurt [I]less[/I]. (In real life, it would make the fall hurt [I]more[/I], which doesn't matter for game rules but does matter for player immersion.) Huh? No, the guy that gets missed more is the clear winner. Consider a Dragon with a +20 bite attack (2d6+4) and Power Attack (16 or less). He attacks the shirt, and needs a 14. He attacks the Plate and needs a 10. So, PA for 16, dealing 2d6+20 with a +4 attack. He needs a 6+ to hit plate (75% hit chance) and will deal ~27 damage (19 after DR); average 14.65 damage per round (including critical threats). He needs a 10+ to hit shirt (55% chance) and will deal ~27 damage (23 after DR); average 12.85 damage per round (including critical threats). Chain Shirt lives longer, assuming same HP. Yes, this ignores the claws, wings, and tail, but those follow the same pattern, leaving shirt the leading survivor. The only way plate can beat shirt is if he can get his DR up to 11 (75%, ~16 after DR; average 12.55 per round) without changing shirt at all. Even an can't-miss Power Attack (12, 2d6+16 for plate; 8, 2d6+12 for shirt) will work out for shirt. Plate gets hit 95%, average 14.65 per round. Shirt gets hit 95%, average 14.45 per round. It's a lot closer, but that miss chance still favors Shirt. Shifting the Power Attack for optimal attack bonus against both (85% hit chance, 4+ to hit) comes out to plate: 14.85 per round, shirt: 14.65 per round. Shirt keeps winning, because that difference in Defense means that fewer blows land, and less pain is taken. That the numbers are so close actually says great things about Plane Sailing's balance skills. This is one of the more effective variants I've seen. The real failure of this rule set is that it invalidates every martial build that is not a sneak attack / TH-power attack build. Any PC relying upon regular damage will fail to hurt the big monsters (Bard, +5 longsword, 18 STR [including magic], will deal 1d8+9 for an average ~13, and is ignored by natural armor 17+), reducing their ability to participate. Bards, non-TH Fighters, Monks, non-PA Paladins, and Rangers all get weaker under this house rule. The only ways to overcome natural armor are Sneak Attack, Power Attack, and Critical Threats; Drizz't [B]has[/B] to be a crit monkey, because there is no other way for him to hurt an umber hulk. [/QUOTE]
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A good Armor Class Bonus to Damage Reduction house rule?
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