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A good Armor Class Bonus to Damage Reduction house rule?
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<blockquote data-quote="ValhallaGH" data-source="post: 5301117" data-attributes="member: 41187"><p><strong>El Mahdi</strong>, I'm just trying to help radmod see the effects of this houserule. As Armor -> DR rules go, it's actually really good. It suffers from all the basic issues of such rules, but this one is better than most, and certainly better than the one in UA.</p><p></p><p>Definitely not.</p><p></p><p>Depends upon how you define weak, I guess. IME they deal more damage than any fighter (except TH / PA). They go squish, if left on the front lines, but they have a lot of options that they can combine to great effect, often with conditional ACs (fight defensively, total defense, combat expertise) that make even the plate / heavy shield crowd look easy to swat. There is a reason they are <a href="http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0" target="_blank">in the same Tier as Barbarians</a>.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Two quick points. </p><p>First, I grabbed an example from last night's session because it was fresh in my mind (black dragon, 16 BAB, power attack, +4 strength bonus). Sure, I could have grabbed something at the appropriate level (2 or 3, based upon the gear value of plate), or bumped the characters to be closer to the example monster, but that would have taken more work than I wanted to put into a clarifying post.</p><p>Second, I've never seen an orc warrior that only had a +2 strength bonus and didn't TH his weapon. If you want to grab an example orc, at least have the decency to use the <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/orc.htm" target="_blank">SRD orc</a> warrior. +4 to hit for 2d4+4 (average 9) with his Falchion. Average 3.35 for Shirt and 1.95 for Plate (this ignores critical hits but does include the 'critical threats bypass DR' clause).</p><p>For a better comparison, bump the probable level up to 6 or 7 (+2 items) and do some real comparisons. That's the point where SRD monsters start having Power Attack, which is when Armor as DR starts getting the party killed for exactly the same reason that Rage gets Barbarians killed. </p><p></p><p>...</p><p>I played Iron Heroes for a little over two years (and still love that clunky, crunchy, brilliantly incomplete system). It uses armor as DR, which is where I learned the advantages and disadvantages of the concept. Being missed is always better than being hit, period. Maybe your armor will stop it all, and maybe it won't, but not getting hit means that you don't have to wonder.</p><p></p><p>When facing low-damage foes, such as CR 1/2 orc warriors, having DR is amazing, it makes you as resilient as an older dragon is to the town guards. When facing medium- to high-damage foes, or anyone who's attacks inherently bypass your DR, you find yourself wishing your AC was in the thirties instead of in the teens.</p><p>This is just as true for PCs versus monsters. Foes with DR are difficult or impossible for low-damage heroes to kill, and as easy for high-damage heroes as the attack roll.</p><p>Armor as DR doesn't work in the d20 paradigm. It is both too strong and too weak. Maybe if weapon damage rolls were open-ended (could Ace or Explode) then things would be different, but they aren't so that equation will never change.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Regardless, good luck with your campaign and your house rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ValhallaGH, post: 5301117, member: 41187"] [B]El Mahdi[/B], I'm just trying to help radmod see the effects of this houserule. As Armor -> DR rules go, it's actually really good. It suffers from all the basic issues of such rules, but this one is better than most, and certainly better than the one in UA. Definitely not. Depends upon how you define weak, I guess. IME they deal more damage than any fighter (except TH / PA). They go squish, if left on the front lines, but they have a lot of options that they can combine to great effect, often with conditional ACs (fight defensively, total defense, combat expertise) that make even the plate / heavy shield crowd look easy to swat. There is a reason they are [url=http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0]in the same Tier as Barbarians[/url]. Two quick points. First, I grabbed an example from last night's session because it was fresh in my mind (black dragon, 16 BAB, power attack, +4 strength bonus). Sure, I could have grabbed something at the appropriate level (2 or 3, based upon the gear value of plate), or bumped the characters to be closer to the example monster, but that would have taken more work than I wanted to put into a clarifying post. Second, I've never seen an orc warrior that only had a +2 strength bonus and didn't TH his weapon. If you want to grab an example orc, at least have the decency to use the [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/orc.htm]SRD orc[/url] warrior. +4 to hit for 2d4+4 (average 9) with his Falchion. Average 3.35 for Shirt and 1.95 for Plate (this ignores critical hits but does include the 'critical threats bypass DR' clause). For a better comparison, bump the probable level up to 6 or 7 (+2 items) and do some real comparisons. That's the point where SRD monsters start having Power Attack, which is when Armor as DR starts getting the party killed for exactly the same reason that Rage gets Barbarians killed. ... I played Iron Heroes for a little over two years (and still love that clunky, crunchy, brilliantly incomplete system). It uses armor as DR, which is where I learned the advantages and disadvantages of the concept. Being missed is always better than being hit, period. Maybe your armor will stop it all, and maybe it won't, but not getting hit means that you don't have to wonder. When facing low-damage foes, such as CR 1/2 orc warriors, having DR is amazing, it makes you as resilient as an older dragon is to the town guards. When facing medium- to high-damage foes, or anyone who's attacks inherently bypass your DR, you find yourself wishing your AC was in the thirties instead of in the teens. This is just as true for PCs versus monsters. Foes with DR are difficult or impossible for low-damage heroes to kill, and as easy for high-damage heroes as the attack roll. Armor as DR doesn't work in the d20 paradigm. It is both too strong and too weak. Maybe if weapon damage rolls were open-ended (could Ace or Explode) then things would be different, but they aren't so that equation will never change. Regardless, good luck with your campaign and your house rules. [/QUOTE]
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