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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8020552" data-attributes="member: 6801228">To the OP. there are a few ways to take it. My pantheon takes Gruumsh as the ultimate traditionalist. He set the laws for the orcs at the beginning of time. You don't use a weapon or armor you didn't make by your own hand. Only weaklings and women use magic, true orcs are strong. Stuff like that. He has ended up diposed by his Wife, because of the many things, including the war with the dwarves. The Orcs outnumbered the dwarves hundreds of times over, they were stronger, and they were just as tactically saavy thanks to Ilneval. The dwarves had steel. And healing magic. Luthic begged Gruumsh to bend his rules, to allow her priestesses to heal her dying children so they could win the war. He refused. Then the goblins swarmed from the West, and the orcs were nearly wiped out. Desperate and driven by fury and grief, Luthic finally betrayed Gruumsh and sealed him away, taking his throne.I've also seen an idea from Ludicsavant over on GiTP to make Gruumsh the god of equality and the sky, he rages because not all people are yet equal, and wages wars against what he sees as injustice. He is the god of the sky because the sky stretches over all. It is a really interesting concept to see the full pantheon he's laid out.Your unpopular opinion is my bread and butter. I've become convinced that the "greater gods" Like Pelor, Bane, Waukeen, ect ect ect. are really just the human gods. Because no setting actually has a living, existing "god of humans" (I get why)But, when you have:The God of War (take your pick)The Elven God of War (Vandria Gilmadrith)The Dwarven God of War (Clangeddin Silverbeard)The Halfling God of War (Avoreen)The Gnome God of War (Gaerdal Ironhand)The Orc God of War (Ilneval)Suddenly, it makes a whole lot of sense exactly where human deities have to fall.For me personally, it is a matter of making sense of the world. Let us take Nerull. No one sane worships Nerull. They can't. His entire point is that he desires to kill everything. All people, all life, everything. No one sane could say "Hey, death of everthing in the universe? That is my jam" Meanwhile, you have Pelor. The God of Healing and Agriculture. Hey, are you sick and need healing? Pray to Pelor. Planting a crop? Pray to Pelor. Hey, like the sun? Pray to Pelor. Everyone would worship him.But, these two entities are supposed to be equal. One with their occasional cult of madmen, and the other with continent wide constant worship. So, instead of just tossing Nerull out, we look into remaking him. How can we take this dieity and turn it into something a sane person would believe in and follow? That tends to mean taking evil deities (most of whom have the subtlety of a saturday morning villian) and making them more neutral and nuanced,  One thing I tend to do with this is to avoid making any nature deities. Magic as well. No god or goddess has control of magic. No dieity is the god of the sun or the moon or the sea or storms. That is the realm of nature spirits and the Druids. So, I don't know who The Sun is, but getting their attention at all is probably a terrible idea, let alone pissing them off. Instead, I focus on things of society and culture. War, Art, Beauty, Trade, Law, Dreams, Knowledge.</blockquote>

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