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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MerricB" data-source="post: 6006738" data-attributes="member: 3586">Note also that the thief advances faster than the cleric and fighter, so the disparity isn't as bad as you might think.Here's a list of the THAC0s at key XP points:0 XP: Cleric 20, Fighter 20, MU 21, Thief 21, MU 215,000 XP: Cleric 20, Fighter 18, MU 21, Thief 2110,000 XP: Cleric 18, Fighter 17, MU 21, Thief 2120,000 XP: Cleric 18, Fighter 16, MU 21, Thief 1940,000 XP: Cleric 18, Fighter 15, MU 19, Thief 1980,000 XP: Cleric 16, Fighter 14, MU 19, Thief 19120,000 XP: Cleric 16, Fighter 14, MU 19, Thief 16150,000 XP: Cleric 16, Fighter 13, MU 19, Thief 16200,000 XP: Cleric 16, Fighter 13, MU 19, Thief 16300,000 XP: Cleric 16, Fighter 12, MU 19, Thief 16400,000 XP: Cleric 16, Fighter 12, MU 19, Thief 16500,000 XP: Cleric 14, Fighter 11, MU 19, Thief 16700,000 XP: Cleric 14, Fighter 11, MU 16, Thief 14As you can see, the disparity between the cleric and the thief isn't actually that bad - and even the fighter rarely opens up much of a lead. In 2E, the 19->16 jump isn't there for the thieves and MUs, but they start at THAC0 of 20 instead. The thief also has the possibility of the backstab - a +4 to hit - which brings their effectiveness close to that of the fighter.The fighter's curve is very slightly ahead of that of 4E - getting a +2 weapon at ninth is by no means assured, and the only other means of increasing your attack bonus would be the rare Gauntlets of Ogre Power or Girdles of Giant Strength. (Of course, it's way, way behind that of 3E, which is one of the reasons that Pathfinder is - for me - a lot of great material built on foundations of sand).The biggest problem with the thief in AD&D simply comes from their ludicrously low chances of success at low levels. With only a 20% chance of finding and removing traps at first level, why are they with the group? At higher levels, magic begins to tread on their toes.Where the AD&D system begins to break down is at the very high levels (11+), but it serves pretty well before then in my opinion. However, negative monster ACs do serve to point out the flaws in the system.Cheers!</blockquote>

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