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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ThatGuyThere" data-source="post: 2820772" data-attributes="member: 36764">Wow.  Who'd of thought this would be my first post?It being a World of Darkness game, where the characters are, in fact, explicitly descendents of a man cursed by God (Caine) - and not just any ol' God, but specifically the Christian God, from the Bible - objections that the Bible doesn't constitute relevant gaming material should fall on deaf ears.  I've certainly used the Bible often enough in Vampire games; I just sort of figured everyone else did, too.Moreover, I'd also argue that the bible - regardless of it's religious content - could be considered to constitute one of the most relevant literary works ever produced in the western world, just in terms of it's prodigious effects on later works.  And would certainly be of recognized value to an elder Ventrue - even one who predates it.It's hardly religious conversion work to hand out a unique and interesting puzzle (which, honestly, I thought this was).  I thought - and continue to think! - the puzzle is unique and ingenious, and I hope to have a use for it at some time.My only two thoughts are as follows.1)  Much better to have handed over a prop bible and a prop book of mormon.  And they better have had an index in them.  Describing books would make the "trap" much more difficult.  On that point, I agree.2)  Unique Solution my sweet nanny's fanny.  The original poster, as several others have pointed out, simply kept counting things in the hope that something counted up to a convenient number.  That would have made for a lousy puzzle, even if it had worked; and his solutions had little to do with the clues at hand.  And from the clue, "The solution is in one of those two books", he took the suggestion, "Count more things".  I'm suprised the DM didn't respond with frustration herself.  Once the poster came up with a reasonably good idea - maybe looking up a relevant passage, and including it, or looking up a passage about offering himself up to God, and entering it's chapter:verse into the "clock" - she could have said, "You hear a grinding noise, as the doors start to open...".  She just wasn't willing to accept the lackluster, "Didn't work?  Then I count something else..."I'm willing to agree that it wasn't a simple puzzle.  I'm willing to agree that it was, in fact, quite difficult.  I'd never have gotten it.  But you wanted to play Intelligence 5, Academics (Religion) 4; your character is One Smart Cookie (and possibly one of the leading religious scholars worldwide).  And his solution to a religiously themed puzzle was not to draw upon his own (presumably vast) knowledge of religious iconography or lore; wasn't to consider the usage of the words Wrath, Hope, Patience, etc, in the context of Judeo-Christian theology, and wasn't even to really take a look at the situation of the puzzle.It was to count things.  And when that didn't work, to count some different things, in the hope that might work, instead.It sounds a lot like you were killed by what kills nearly every character who encounters riddles or puzzles in game - as soon as anyone (me included; everyone I've ever DMmed included) goes "in character", their IQ drops fifty points.  The gaming groups in my area have an expression:  Only PCs can stand immediately beneath the glowing neon sign that says "GUARANTEED TRAP SOLUTIONS THIS WAY!  ==>", and say, "I have no idea about this crazy riddle.  I'm completely stumped."</blockquote>

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