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<blockquote data-quote="Caliban" data-source="post: 7461940" data-attributes="member: 284">Since they are all starting within 50'-60' feet of each other,&nbsp; I don't think winning initiative will help.&nbsp;&nbsp; That just means you are going to be the first to be counterspelled (range: 60').&nbsp; Assuming they are all in a big ring, even moving 30' back will probably still leave the mage in counterspell range of at least 2 other wizards.&nbsp;&nbsp; If they are in an arena type situation and can't get any farther away from each other, then it's really going to be a matter of luck - the first few round are just going to be a flurry of counterspells or attempts to cast spells that don't seem worth countering but will give you an advantage in later rounds. The one concentration spell should be something like Improved Invisibility or True Sight, or possibly even just Fog Cloud or something similar to block LOS to you can try to get a spell off without being countered. If they have magic items it become vastly more complicated.&nbsp;&nbsp; Staff of Swarming Insects becomes more valuable than a Staff of the Magi in this situation. I think I'd still give the edge to Divination, mainly because with 3 to 6 portents (if they can have a simulacrum) they can portent their own initiative with a high roll, make someone else's counterspell fail (if it's not an automatic counter), etc.&nbsp;&nbsp; But with 8 other wizards, they'll run out of portents quickly, and possibly be ganged up on immediately. 9 wizards, all in counterspell range is just too hard to predict.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Caliban, post: 7461940, member: 284"] Since they are all starting within 50'-60' feet of each other, I don't think winning initiative will help. That just means you are going to be the first to be counterspelled (range: 60'). Assuming they are all in a big ring, even moving 30' back will probably still leave the mage in counterspell range of at least 2 other wizards. If they are in an arena type situation and can't get any farther away from each other, then it's really going to be a matter of luck - the first few round are just going to be a flurry of counterspells or attempts to cast spells that don't seem worth countering but will give you an advantage in later rounds. The one concentration spell should be something like Improved Invisibility or True Sight, or possibly even just Fog Cloud or something similar to block LOS to you can try to get a spell off without being countered. If they have magic items it become vastly more complicated. Staff of Swarming Insects becomes more valuable than a Staff of the Magi in this situation. I think I'd still give the edge to Divination, mainly because with 3 to 6 portents (if they can have a simulacrum) they can portent their own initiative with a high roll, make someone else's counterspell fail (if it's not an automatic counter), etc. But with 8 other wizards, they'll run out of portents quickly, and possibly be ganged up on immediately. 9 wizards, all in counterspell range is just too hard to predict. [/QUOTE]

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