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*Dungeons & Dragons
A Lich with a Clone?
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<blockquote data-quote="travathian" data-source="post: 6491882" data-attributes="member: 12105"><p>Based on reading the 5E PHB spell Clone and the MM listing for the Lich, it would seem possible for a Lich to have a clone.</p><p></p><p>Key wording:</p><p>"At any time after the clone matures, if the original creatures <strong>dies</strong>, its soul transfers to the clone, provided that the soul is <strong>free and willing</strong>."</p><p></p><p>The tricky part is the wording of the Lich in the MM:</p><p>"The wizard falls dead, then rises as a lich as its soul is drawn into the phylactery, <strong>where it forever remains</strong>."</p><p>"Because the destruction of its phylactery means the <strong>possibility </strong>of eternal death . . ."</p><p></p><p>1) Wizard creates clone</p><p>2) Wizard creates phylactery</p><p>3) Wizard undergoes the lichedom process, and wills its soul go to the phylactery, not the clone</p><p>4) Wizard lich now has a phylactery with a soul in it, and should it be destroyed, the soul can willingly go to the clone</p><p></p><p>Arguments both for and against that I have come up with so far:</p><p>FOR: Clone is clearly worded that the clone remains viable forever, assuming it isnt disturbed, so the potential long life of the lich isn't an issue.</p><p>FOR: Clone states the soul must be free and willing, implying that the soul has a choice in the matter, and thus chose the phylactery over the clone.</p><p>FOR: The "eternal death" wording above reasons that the lich would 'die' if its phylactery were destroyed, thus triggering the wording in the clone spell.</p><p>FOR/AGAINST: The soul in a phylactery could be interpreted as being destroyed when the phylactery is destroyed, but the word "possibility" leaves it open that maybe it isn't?</p><p>AGAINST: It could be interpreted that upon death, if the soul doesn't go into the clone, that the clone now becomes non-viable.</p><p>AGAINST: Liches are psychotic, and wouldn't want to have their soul go back into a flesh and blood body, or if they did, might go completely off the hook when it happens.</p><p></p><p>Now we have a wizard who creates a clone, undergoes lichedom. Said lich then takes clone to super secret hiding spot. Within super secret hiding spot, the lich leaves: backup spell book, components to make a clone, supplies/spells to survive 120 days in hiding spot, magic items, a phylactery, components to undergo lichedom.</p><p></p><p>Finally, a lich that has to be killed, its phylactery destroyed, and its clone located within 120 days, or the lich rises yet again . . . with another clone.</p><p></p><p>In previous editions this was tougher due to the wordings, but 5E seems to make it perfectly viable.</p><p></p><p>Thoughts?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="travathian, post: 6491882, member: 12105"] Based on reading the 5E PHB spell Clone and the MM listing for the Lich, it would seem possible for a Lich to have a clone. Key wording: "At any time after the clone matures, if the original creatures [B]dies[/B], its soul transfers to the clone, provided that the soul is [B]free and willing[/B]." The tricky part is the wording of the Lich in the MM: "The wizard falls dead, then rises as a lich as its soul is drawn into the phylactery, [B]where it forever remains[/B]." "Because the destruction of its phylactery means the [B]possibility [/B]of eternal death . . ." 1) Wizard creates clone 2) Wizard creates phylactery 3) Wizard undergoes the lichedom process, and wills its soul go to the phylactery, not the clone 4) Wizard lich now has a phylactery with a soul in it, and should it be destroyed, the soul can willingly go to the clone Arguments both for and against that I have come up with so far: FOR: Clone is clearly worded that the clone remains viable forever, assuming it isnt disturbed, so the potential long life of the lich isn't an issue. FOR: Clone states the soul must be free and willing, implying that the soul has a choice in the matter, and thus chose the phylactery over the clone. FOR: The "eternal death" wording above reasons that the lich would 'die' if its phylactery were destroyed, thus triggering the wording in the clone spell. FOR/AGAINST: The soul in a phylactery could be interpreted as being destroyed when the phylactery is destroyed, but the word "possibility" leaves it open that maybe it isn't? AGAINST: It could be interpreted that upon death, if the soul doesn't go into the clone, that the clone now becomes non-viable. AGAINST: Liches are psychotic, and wouldn't want to have their soul go back into a flesh and blood body, or if they did, might go completely off the hook when it happens. Now we have a wizard who creates a clone, undergoes lichedom. Said lich then takes clone to super secret hiding spot. Within super secret hiding spot, the lich leaves: backup spell book, components to make a clone, supplies/spells to survive 120 days in hiding spot, magic items, a phylactery, components to undergo lichedom. Finally, a lich that has to be killed, its phylactery destroyed, and its clone located within 120 days, or the lich rises yet again . . . with another clone. In previous editions this was tougher due to the wordings, but 5E seems to make it perfectly viable. Thoughts? [/QUOTE]
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