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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
A Long Thread about the Weapon's vs. AC Table
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9867162" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>If you'd asked me circa 1990 I probably would have said that being more realistic was in itself a good thing, but I probably wouldn't have understood what I meant by "realistic" at the time. </p><p></p><p>Now I'd say that what I meant by that is that reality is messy and complex and filled with tradeoffs, and that was inherently more interesting than just look down a list and picking the thing that gave you the most damage versus large sized creatures. It's also more interesting as a world to GM, because you have a reason why you might give the BBEG a mace rather than a longsword and he's not necessarily being sub-optimal by taking a mace. There is more to the choice than just flavor.</p><p></p><p>The first time someone switches from a sword to a pick or flail because the smaller damage dice is mitigated by better chance to hit, I personally feel it's worth it for game play, above and beyond the historian nerds in me going, "In the real world, real knights carried maces and flails as well as swords." Sure, I like the aesthetics of a game world that looks like I imagine the past to look like, but I do think there is more to it than that.</p><p></p><p>UPDATE: Thinking more on this, it feels like, "Why is everyone talking so much about the trial by combat in "Knight of the Seven Kingdoms?" Is it just "more realistic" and that in itself is a good thing?"</p><p></p><p>And the answer is of course, "No. It's a fantasy story. The "realism" such as it is is not the point. The point is that it requires someone with a very high understanding of historical European martial arts and weaponry to create the sort of varied and rich cinematography that went into that scene, and that felt really fresh to the audience because it was a lot more satisfying than just the hero swings his hero sword and we are supposed to imagine from the stunt doubles response that he just chopped through plate armor somehow."</p><p></p><p>And my answer to your question is, "This is part of a comprehensive approach to combat that forces tactical choices on the players and GM alike, so that if the fighter is beset by wild dogs I as the GM have to come with some believable way those dogs are still a threat to a juggernaut clad in steel beyond just saying, "<em>roll</em>... 16, it's a hit, take <em>roll</em> 3 points of damage."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9867162, member: 4937"] If you'd asked me circa 1990 I probably would have said that being more realistic was in itself a good thing, but I probably wouldn't have understood what I meant by "realistic" at the time. Now I'd say that what I meant by that is that reality is messy and complex and filled with tradeoffs, and that was inherently more interesting than just look down a list and picking the thing that gave you the most damage versus large sized creatures. It's also more interesting as a world to GM, because you have a reason why you might give the BBEG a mace rather than a longsword and he's not necessarily being sub-optimal by taking a mace. There is more to the choice than just flavor. The first time someone switches from a sword to a pick or flail because the smaller damage dice is mitigated by better chance to hit, I personally feel it's worth it for game play, above and beyond the historian nerds in me going, "In the real world, real knights carried maces and flails as well as swords." Sure, I like the aesthetics of a game world that looks like I imagine the past to look like, but I do think there is more to it than that. UPDATE: Thinking more on this, it feels like, "Why is everyone talking so much about the trial by combat in "Knight of the Seven Kingdoms?" Is it just "more realistic" and that in itself is a good thing?" And the answer is of course, "No. It's a fantasy story. The "realism" such as it is is not the point. The point is that it requires someone with a very high understanding of historical European martial arts and weaponry to create the sort of varied and rich cinematography that went into that scene, and that felt really fresh to the audience because it was a lot more satisfying than just the hero swings his hero sword and we are supposed to imagine from the stunt doubles response that he just chopped through plate armor somehow." And my answer to your question is, "This is part of a comprehensive approach to combat that forces tactical choices on the players and GM alike, so that if the fighter is beset by wild dogs I as the GM have to come with some believable way those dogs are still a threat to a juggernaut clad in steel beyond just saying, "[I]roll[/I]... 16, it's a hit, take [I]roll[/I] 3 points of damage." [/QUOTE]
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A Long Thread about the Weapon's vs. AC Table
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