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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 9867573" data-attributes="member: 6799660">Other than just the overall complexity*, the major issue I always had with the WvsAC chart was how it didn't interact well with critters that didn't use weapons or armor**. It was a great medieval arms and armor rule that didn't interact well with the fantasy part of the whole medieval fantasy game. *and some frustration I had at the time with gamers that treated 'realism' as such an obvious goal as not needing to be argued.**a large part of the total bestiaries, and probably even larger part of why many of us played the gameThis fixes this -- for the most part. There is still an issue that the weapon vs armor weighing goes out the window once you have a silver dagger, a +1 longsword, and the wraiths and werewolves are breaking down the door. That reared its head even just with longswords -- they aren't as impressive as two-handed swords against heavy armor, but they comprise a huge majority of magic swords that come up, so they are likely still the weapon (and sword amongst the options) that will see the most proficiency selection. Now that I think about it, the proficiency (and then specialization) slot system was a significant contributor to this* as well. In the basic-classic line (which by the time I'd gotten to it had long since jettisoned the weapon vs. armor rules) we had a lot more characters using spears and axes and polearms because you used whichever one you had the best (specific) weapon from and would switch back and forth as treasure piles turned up more options. *the movement towards an always-taken set of weapons. Once we get to this kind of granularity, there's an infinitely deep rabbit hole we can dive down. Obviously the entire A/D&D armor system has some issues with realism on the armor side (studded and ring of course, but also layered armors as you mention, or the notion of leather and gambeson as 'light', etc.). There's also huge variation in weapons the game treats as a single entry (the wide variety of 'simple spear's and how their qualities change how they are used), whether they are used with shield or not, mounted or not, or in duel/skirmish/formation, to say nothing of which art, treatise, manual, or expert you consider most valuable. Perhaps best (IMO) to pick a level of abstraction going in (at least if you have a limited amount of time to devote).</blockquote>

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