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A Look Inside Dune 2d20
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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 8264730" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>I've only run STA and Dune, tho' I've read JCoM, Conan, and one other. In STA and Dune, the rerolls don't mitigate the issue enough to prevent it.. Literally, in several publisihed adventures, if you generate complications on the opening couple tasks, you're not going to succeed on the later tasks unless the GM avoids entirely complications which could affect the outcome, or gives extra tasks to counteract the issue (which can still backfire). On that backfire, I had 5 D1 tasks at start, and they generated 6 threat to max it rolling 10d20 across the group - 5 from the player, 1 from the ship, 4 from assistance. The unfortunate group rolled 5 20's... rendering the lead pretty bad odd with 3 complications, and 2 other players with 1 complication each. </p><p></p><p>Also note that most rerolls are predicated upon spending momentum <u><em>or</em></u> generating threat; the rerolls are each one or the other, not both. The ones for Momentum are often useless once into the snowball, since the complications reduced margins... so the only way to get the momentum to spend is to generate threat.</p><p></p><p>Note also: it has occurred in 4 of 5 plays of one particular adventure, one of which was a repeat for the same players. (They wanted a retry. It was a playtest. Character advancement wasn't in use.) The issue is that the difficulty of the tasks ramps steeply in the adventure; the one group that didn't have an issue was larger (7p), and everyone helped on almost every roll... which is thematic, but also was meaning they were rolling massive piles of momentum and rolling them into advatages rather than momentum. <em>Doomed to Repeat the Past </em>is the adventure; for 2-3 player groups, a bad roll at start of scene can be a major problem. And was for 3 of those plays. Even with in-scene NPCs (each squad counts as a trait) it wasn't adequate.</p><p>the 7 player group breezed through it only generating 10 threat through the whole adventure, that only to trigger reroll options.</p><p>The 2-3 player plays, one failed completely (TPK) with over 30 unspent threat (I didn't have NPCs needing to spend it, and one's not supposed to push the difficulty past 5), and no increased threat range used; once I used it once, and the stack of chips for threat was more than 30; I estimate about 45... The other two succeeded but I still had at least 20 unspent threat at end. </p><p></p><p>It's an adventure design issue as much as a game mechanic issue. And it's one that a Modiphius staffer has claimed does not exist at all. I and a guy I generally disagree with both saw it as a very real issue on first read, and he had it happen in playing the Conan preview, while I've had it happen in 4 of the Living Campaign adventures for STA and once during the Dune playtest.</p><p></p><p>There's one other issue with 2d20, and it's pretty minor, but shows up with certain players a session after encountering a snowball: that 20's are always a complication and there is no benefit for it, certain players then start lying about die rolls. (in some cases, it's apparently pathological, they don't realize intellectually they're doing it. In others it's entirely cognizant. I've had to deal with both.)</p><p></p><p>One element of 2d20 that may be problematic, and is related, but which I'm fine with: Success strongly ties to metacurrency flows.</p><p></p><p>Overall, I don't dislike 2d20; just be aware it's more trad than Fate or Cortex is, but still in that hybrid space between the two spots, as are Fate, Savage Worlds, FFG Narrative Dice System games, and a few others.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 8264730, member: 6779310"] I've only run STA and Dune, tho' I've read JCoM, Conan, and one other. In STA and Dune, the rerolls don't mitigate the issue enough to prevent it.. Literally, in several publisihed adventures, if you generate complications on the opening couple tasks, you're not going to succeed on the later tasks unless the GM avoids entirely complications which could affect the outcome, or gives extra tasks to counteract the issue (which can still backfire). On that backfire, I had 5 D1 tasks at start, and they generated 6 threat to max it rolling 10d20 across the group - 5 from the player, 1 from the ship, 4 from assistance. The unfortunate group rolled 5 20's... rendering the lead pretty bad odd with 3 complications, and 2 other players with 1 complication each. Also note that most rerolls are predicated upon spending momentum [U][I]or[/I][/U] generating threat; the rerolls are each one or the other, not both. The ones for Momentum are often useless once into the snowball, since the complications reduced margins... so the only way to get the momentum to spend is to generate threat. Note also: it has occurred in 4 of 5 plays of one particular adventure, one of which was a repeat for the same players. (They wanted a retry. It was a playtest. Character advancement wasn't in use.) The issue is that the difficulty of the tasks ramps steeply in the adventure; the one group that didn't have an issue was larger (7p), and everyone helped on almost every roll... which is thematic, but also was meaning they were rolling massive piles of momentum and rolling them into advatages rather than momentum. [I]Doomed to Repeat the Past [/I]is the adventure; for 2-3 player groups, a bad roll at start of scene can be a major problem. And was for 3 of those plays. Even with in-scene NPCs (each squad counts as a trait) it wasn't adequate. the 7 player group breezed through it only generating 10 threat through the whole adventure, that only to trigger reroll options. The 2-3 player plays, one failed completely (TPK) with over 30 unspent threat (I didn't have NPCs needing to spend it, and one's not supposed to push the difficulty past 5), and no increased threat range used; once I used it once, and the stack of chips for threat was more than 30; I estimate about 45... The other two succeeded but I still had at least 20 unspent threat at end. It's an adventure design issue as much as a game mechanic issue. And it's one that a Modiphius staffer has claimed does not exist at all. I and a guy I generally disagree with both saw it as a very real issue on first read, and he had it happen in playing the Conan preview, while I've had it happen in 4 of the Living Campaign adventures for STA and once during the Dune playtest. There's one other issue with 2d20, and it's pretty minor, but shows up with certain players a session after encountering a snowball: that 20's are always a complication and there is no benefit for it, certain players then start lying about die rolls. (in some cases, it's apparently pathological, they don't realize intellectually they're doing it. In others it's entirely cognizant. I've had to deal with both.) One element of 2d20 that may be problematic, and is related, but which I'm fine with: Success strongly ties to metacurrency flows. Overall, I don't dislike 2d20; just be aware it's more trad than Fate or Cortex is, but still in that hybrid space between the two spots, as are Fate, Savage Worlds, FFG Narrative Dice System games, and a few others. [/QUOTE]
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