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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herzog" data-source="post: 4457952" data-attributes="member: 25696">@lottrbacchus:this Group template is not only meant for low hp creatures, but also for high-hp creatures in large groups. (with high-hp I mean creatures that will not go down after 1, or even 2 hits.)@bladesong: you're right, the damage rule didn't sit right with me either. I don't want to use the auto-hit rules for swarms, but a generic dmg bonus equal to half the number of creatures in the group sounds good. @Scurvy_Platypus:I read some of the comments in that thread, and so far still like my system better. Also, the link by Psion is to the front page of some website, and I couldn't find the article in question.@Kerrick:I know the reasoning behind the way a swarm and mob work.I just want an alternative to handle large groups that don't act like a swarm or mob. One of the things that always bothers me about swarms is that they avoid the normal rules.What happens if someone with the cleave feat hits a swarm? according to the feat, if he kills a creature, he may hit again. Having hit the swarm would definately mean he has killed several of the creatures in it. However, since the swarm is considered to be a single creature, this doesn't apply.What if you cast a spell that does 1 point of damage to each creature in the area, with no number of creatures limit? how many hitpoints does each individual creature of the swarm have? or is the swarm (again) counted as a single creature? Area effects do extra damage. A fireball should inflict at least 1 point of damage to every single insect in an insect swarm, but the swarm somehow survives because it is treated as a single creature.....Now, I can handle that for 'real' swarms, but if I want a way to handle multiple opponents in a more structured way, I'm definately not going to use the swarm template.Which reminds me: has anyone determined the dmg and CR of a swarm of stirges yet?</blockquote>

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