A mean 'ol DM...

[PrinceZane]

I'm not sure if this necessarily goes in rules, maybe a "guidelines" would be better. At either rate...

I've recently taken over DM of our group. The old DM just got burned out so we finished that quest and swapped. The party is maybe a 4-5 on figuring stuff out, but a 10+++ on hack and slash...

However, I told the group if I choose to DM, it'll be alot different than they think. We started our first quest, and to my unfortunate realization, the group isn't changed. Right now they're worried about running through, slashing everything and gaining massive xp and loots.

My situation is this: I had several opportunities to kill the entire party in 1 swift move (via lie from NPC they didn't challenge, trap they didn't catch, etc). What happens if I whipe the entire group. Is it game over and they start new chars? Do they wait until someone finds them to cast res on them or what?

I'm tired of warning and babying them basically, and I've just begun! Just curious how anyone else deals with party annhilation etc.

 

[DanMcS]

My situation is this: I had several opportunities to kill the entire party in 1 swift move (via lie from NPC they didn't challenge, trap they didn't catch, etc). What happens if I whipe the entire group. Is it game over and they start new chars? Do they wait until someone finds them to cast res on them or what?

I'm tired of warning and babying them basically, and I've just begun! Just curious how anyone else deals with party annhilation etc.

You can wipe them out. If they're not high level, they'll probably just have to roll up new characters, end of game. They will not like you for this, and it's really no fun for anyone. Worst option.

If they are high level/well known/important, someone might raise them for favors to be rendered later.

You could wipe them out, and have them wake up dead. They're incorporeal and don't really have the use of their equipment, what do they do to get better?

You could wipe them out, and have them wake up captured.

In general, I wouldn't put in a trap that would wipe out the whole party, at least not until after they've gotten to trust you and are used to your trapping style. Maybe just the pointman would get ganked to showcase the danger of wandering around without searching sufficiently.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

(This should indeed go into General...)

So you took on as DM and told the H&S group that you weren't planning on running a H&S game. And yet, the group still plays in a H&S way.

If you kill them all, I doubt that they'll drastically change their behavior. They'll probably just be miffed.

If you took over a H&S game, the players probably have H&S characters (tanks and blaster wizards, I'm guessing?) that are basically not made for a non-H&S game. Without having to kill their characters, you could perhaps switch campaigns, in which the players would have to made new characters. During character creation, remind them incessantly that you won't be runnign a H&S game, and that not every problem will be solved by hacking it to pieces.

Start at a low level. The first few adventures, put very little emphasis on combat, and more on social interaction, puzzle solving, investigating, etc. Let them get used to it in an environment where they don't have a choice. Start them at 1st level and don't give them any equipment. Hell, start them out as commoners that don't have any special abilities. After the first adventure, they'll reach level 1, and make "real" characters.

AR

 

[PrinceZane]

Actually they're all farily low chars (party level of 7 - there are 7 players, huge group). The characters are actually very rounded. Like I said, they're at least average usually on searching for stuff and being crafty, but lately they're just gotten really lazy and apparently they're comfortable with it. I like the idea of being captured, I hadn't thought of that.

They were going through this dungeon and there were several carvings and such gathered in this area. The wizard casts detect magic and indeed they're glowing pretty strong. The group decides (without any attempt to decipher the carving message or anything) that they were just made by some kind of magic "arcane mark" or something and move on. Thus triggering a set of traps and whamo.

I mean, with a hack and slash attitude, if you discovered something magical on a wall, would you just run by w/o even attempting to look for a trap or anything? Maybe I have the setup for it wrong being new to the DM side and all but to me it seemed easily avoidable.

 

[Man-thing]

This is exactly like my players hack and slahs 10+++. They were particularly bad with the concept of encounters that were "easy if handled properly" as they never were handled property. This is what happened.

I wiped them out.
I wiped them out.
I wiped them out.
I wiped them out.
I wiped them out.

I think we went through TPK 5 or 6 times. Naturely I offered for some one else to DM but my players feel their too busy so I continued then eventually ...

they thought, they planned, and built up their "figuring out skills". We haven't has a TPK in months and months now. Actually we haven't even had a party member killed in quite a while.

 

[Ourph]

I agree with Man-Thing. Just keep killing them until they figure out that mindless hack-n-slashery is different than thoughtful hack-n-slashery (and that only the latter stands any real chance of success).

 

[PrinceZane]

Preciate the info, I'll try to be back to continue the discussion in a few... lab is starting (night classes)

Mainly wanted to see if TPK was an option or if it was just downright brutal.

I might just kill em all and take the level loss for res, shrugs.

 

[BSF]

Even more sadistic.

Design a dungeon that has a teleport entry. Once you walk in, you don't come out. Make it an evil place that sucks the soul from your body. They have to figure out how to beat the trap. Each time they die, they res back at the beginning room. Enforce level loss, and eventual Con loss. When they run out of Con, their soul is now in possession of a Devil or Demon.

It's like a mindless video game. Yeah, that's intentional. Just wrap it up with a clever device and plot elements. If they ever figure out how to get out, then they will have learned to think a bit, and they will have the plot elements to deal with.

Probably not the best solution, but I am in a weird mood today.

 

[PrinceZane]

Had a break from class... I actually like that. In fact... that might be the next dungeon... Preciate the tips and such...

I'm afraid they're going to hate me more than they already do