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<blockquote data-quote="Mark CMG" data-source="post: 5729696" data-attributes="member: 10479">It doesn't seem to actually do that, so it may be that the DM felt the argument was a poor one.&nbsp; Of course, I wasn't there.&nbsp; As I said above, after reviewing the spell myself, I am prone to look for a way to make it work in some fashion (the &quot;why&quot; already being supplied).That seems a fair assessment based on the information provided.Mort - Did the DM continue the full half hour with a flat &quot;No&quot; or was it more along the lines of &quot;You can't make the dirt go anywhere you like&quot; but allowing for some of the fire to be subdued?&nbsp; Was the argument prolonged by the player not getting the full effect he wanted and not accepting that it could only do so much?&nbsp; I've been in some situations before where players wouldn't take some form of yes for an answer and it tends to be more problematic than just saying &quot;no.&quot;&nbsp; Is this player one who often winds up in arguments over the DM saying &quot;no&quot; or is this an isolated incident?In any case, once a DM has made a decision, and perhaps given a brief bit of time for the player to make a case, the player needs to just accept the answer and move on.&nbsp; I can't imagine that the DM said &quot;no&quot; and that the argument continued unless the player kept wanting to get his way.&nbsp; The DM can't argue alone and if the DM says &quot;no&quot; that really needs to be the end of the argument even if it seems unreasonable at the time.&nbsp; The DM's answer, for good or ill, is the bottomline.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mark CMG, post: 5729696, member: 10479"] It doesn't seem to actually do that, so it may be that the DM felt the argument was a poor one. Of course, I wasn't there. As I said above, after reviewing the spell myself, I am prone to look for a way to make it work in some fashion (the "why" already being supplied). That seems a fair assessment based on the information provided. Mort - Did the DM continue the full half hour with a flat "No" or was it more along the lines of "You can't make the dirt go anywhere you like" but allowing for some of the fire to be subdued? Was the argument prolonged by the player not getting the full effect he wanted and not accepting that it could only do so much? I've been in some situations before where players wouldn't take some form of yes for an answer and it tends to be more problematic than just saying "no." Is this player one who often winds up in arguments over the DM saying "no" or is this an isolated incident? In any case, once a DM has made a decision, and perhaps given a brief bit of time for the player to make a case, the player needs to just accept the answer and move on. I can't imagine that the DM said "no" and that the argument continued unless the player kept wanting to get his way. The DM can't argue alone and if the DM says "no" that really needs to be the end of the argument even if it seems unreasonable at the time. The DM's answer, for good or ill, is the bottomline. [/QUOTE]

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