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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9237357" data-attributes="member: 6785785">Because of your take about expecting to be able to "do anything" and how literal you seem to apply that. Generally, I don't think that is an expectation that most people have.What games are you talking about? There are plenty of games that don't sell themselves with "you can do anything". There are few that do.I didn't say it's only what I'm talking about. The two things are related. I'm talking about what games are about... their settings and themes... and how that limits what you were talking about... what the game allows the player to do.If I join in a classic dungeon crawl game, there's an expectation I engage with the GM's material... namely the dungeon, or at the very least the world in which the dungeon exists. I'm expected to select from the options allowed in the game for the type of character I have and the abilities and gear available to them. And so on.Right, as [USER=70468]@kenada[/USER] pointed out, the comparison falls down because in most sports, the referee isn't simultaneously providing the opposition. There are multiple teams or competitors requiring a neutral third party to adjudicate. So although one of the roles of a GM is that of being a referee, the idea of thinking of them more as a player isn't about the label. It's not about trying to muddy the classification... clearly, everyone knows there is a difference between players and the GM. The definition of neotrad acknowledges the asymmetry of the roles.What I think it's most about is removal of the primacy of GM as the main storyteller. And that the GM is not above the rules. For many people, these aren't desired, and so they resist even the ideas, whether they desire a type of play for which these ideas are suitable or not.The GM must remain supreme!</blockquote>

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